Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Val, I don't know why you keep insisting on politicizing this little event. The original story used an inflammatory descriptor*. So what? Get over it.

The real issue -- not the one you want to make it -- is that someone "annoyed, molested, harassed, or disturbed," a protected animal. There is a clear law, and a clear set of consequences for this infraction. The rest is just obfuscation.

How to you "politicize" a political article? Isn't a political article by definition politicized?

This story would have never made it out of the local paper if it wasn't completely political.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Here’s an example of the sensational/hyperbolic reporting, “fawning over revered lefties”, from that veritable font of liberal/commie disinformation, The New York Times:

Someone Wrote ‘Trump’ on a Florida Manatee

State and federal wildlife authorities were investigating after a manatee with “Trump” on its back was spotted in Florida on Sunday.

By Johnny Diaz Jan. 11, 2021

The sighting in Florida this week of a manatee with “Trump” in block letters on its back has prompted an investigation and a plea for help from a nonprofit conservation group.

The Center for Biological Diversity said it was offering a $5,000 reward for information leading to a conviction “for the cruel and illegal mutilation” of a threatened manatee in the Homosassa River in Citrus County, on Florida’s Gulf Coast.

It was not immediately clear what was done to the manatee. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said that the manatee did not appear to be seriously injured “as it seems the word was written in algae on the animal’s back.” The Center for Biological Diversity initially described the writing as having been “carved” into the manatee’s back and said it appeared to have caused “serious scarring.”

“Manatees aren’t billboards, and people shouldn’t be messing with these sensitive and imperiled animals for any reason,” Jaclyn Lopez, the center’s Florida director, said on Monday.

“However this political graffiti was put on this manatee,” she added, “it’s a crime to interfere with these creatures, which are protected under multiple federal laws.”

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission began investigating after the manatee was discovered on Sunday, the center said. The discovery was reported by the Citrus County Chronicle.
Debatable: The sharpest arguments on the most pressing issues of the week.

The manatee was photographed and recorded by Hailey Warrington, a boat captain for a fishing charter company in Crystal River, Fla.

“We don’t typically see manatees harassed like that,” Ms. Warrington told The Sarasota Herald-Tribune, saying that she was observing manatees during a tour at the time. “I started documenting so we could report it. That’s why I have the photos and video in the first place.”

Patrick Rose, the executive director of the nonprofit Save the Manatee Club, said he had seen the photos of the manatee earlier on Monday and was disturbed.

“This is a type of a molestation of an imperiled species,” he said on Monday from Gainesville, Fla. He added that the manatee appeared to be an adolescent.

His alarm was shared by other conservationists.

“This abhorrent action goes beyond the bounds of what is considered cruel and inhumane,” said Elizabeth Fleming, senior Florida representative at Defenders of Wildlife. “I’m disgusted that someone would harm a defenseless creature to send what I can only assume is a political message. We will do everything in our power to help find, arrest and successfully prosecute this coward.”

A beloved unofficial mascot of Florida, the manatee is a species of large, slow-moving mammal. There are about 6,300 manatees in Florida, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. In colder weather, they tend to congregate near South Florida power plants, where they bask in the warm water discharge.

They are federally protected under the Endangered Species Act and the Marine Mammal Protection Act. Manatees are also protected by the Florida Manatee Sanctuary Act of 1978, which states that “it is unlawful for any person, at any time, intentionally or negligently, to annoy, molest, harass, or disturb any manatee.”

The animals are vulnerable to scarring, typically from collisions with boats but also from exposure to very cold temperatures.

Mr. Rose of the Florida manatee advocacy group said that writing the president’s name on the manatee’s back “would be a form of harassment and it would be illegal under state and federal laws.”

People who violate the state law can face up to a $500 fine and up to 60 days in jail. A federal conviction carries a fine of up to $50,000 and a year in prison, according to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

Source ➥ https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/u...tee-trump.html

Their article seems to answer the “Five W's and an H”, of responsible journalism. Who, what, when, where, why*, & how.*Without a perpetrator to interview, they necessarily can't provide the underlying motivational 'why'.

As indicated previously, the media has been careful not to outright lie but by using selective quotes from 3rd Parties and terms meant to incite outrage, they blew this way out of proportion.

Again, I don't think anyone is suggesting it's a good thing to mess with manatees and there are laws against it but calls for maximum punishment and cutting off body parts have clearly been incited by the media for political reasons.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Oddly, when someone supports the agenda, they tend to overlook the issues and imply anyone questioning it is juvenile. This is part of the problem. The media vilifies anyone who is not in support of the agenda and encourages others to do the same. It appears to be working.

As far as "gouged" vs "scratched"...are you purposely trying to manipulate the story line to prove your point? The word used was "carved". Sounds like you are trying to soften the tone to distract from the obvious. When it's Thanksgiving, do you "carve" your turkey with bare hands? Most people I know get out a big knife...and that's exactly how the original story was written. Only a fool would think that word was not chosen with great purpose.

As far as "fake news", the media has long since learned not to lie outright but to twist and imply, so the desired agenda is pushed forward. Then they can "fact check" their stories and claim it's not "fake news".

I agree, freedom of the press and free speech is critical for a democracy. That doesn't mean they get a free pass when purposely sowing political strife by purposely disseminating misleading articles. Anarchy and dictatorship...look at WWII for the playbook on using the media. The Germans never shut down the media...the subverted it for their own purposes. So yes, there is a point where if the media is getting out of control, they should be pulled up short and be reminded that freedom of the press is not the same as running a propaganda mill (and yes, I do think we are approaching the point where the press is more about propaganda than news reporting).

Sorry, but I think you have completely lost perspective on this. I was careful to not be partisan. You insist on making it so in spite of my efforts. It is your prerogative to continue this rant (and the moderator), but I will pass on further engaging as it is clearly to no avail.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

How to you "politicize" a political article? Isn't a political article by definition politicized?

This story would have never made it out of the local paper if it wasn't completely political.

It's not a political article. It's an article about an illegal act which involved a political term. It is the illegal act that is the important aspect, not what was scrawled.

You can choose to continue to promote this as a political event, or you can focus (as I keep trying to do) on the actual illegal act. The choice is up to you. You are not passive in this information circle.

[Sailmonkey]

My problem with this whole story is the sensationalized headline.


Is the act of disturbing a manatee illegal? Yes.

Did anyone “carve” the animal. No.

This headline and the reaction to it is what’s wrong with people these days. It’s a stupid and sensational way to describe an act, most of the population won’t read beyond the headline. So while still a crime against the animal, also becomes a political drama.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's not a political article. It's an article about an illegal act which involved a political term. It is the illegal act that is the important aspect, not what was scrawled.

The legality would be exactly the same if some dumb kid rubbed "I love Suzie" on it's back.

The difference is it likely wouldn't have even made the local paper, let alone national news if not for the political spin. Therefore, it's a political article first and foremost.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

My problem with this whole story is the sensationalized headline.


Is the act of disturbing a manatee illegal? Yes.

Did anyone “carve” the animal. No.

This headline and the reaction to it is what’s wrong with people these days. It’s a stupid and sensational way to describe an act, most of the population won’t read beyond the headline. So while still a crime against the animal, also becomes a political drama.

I think there is some conflation here.
1) The exaggeration of 'scratch' to 'gouge' or 'carve' (or whatever it was) is common in the media - they know that they have to juice the headline and the lede to get you to read it. No politics there - they are just doing what they know they need to do to sell newspapers (or ads if it is web-based).
2) That the marking of the animal had a political slant gave people of a certain political leaning a reason for indignation, quite separate from the degree of harm to the animal. What was written on the animal is what made it political, not how. I am pretty confident that those of a liberal persuasion would have found it possible to be just as indignant if someone had 'scratched' that into the animal, rather than 'gouged' or 'carved'. I am equally confident that if some knucklehead had inscribed 'BLM' into the animal, it would have ignited an equally severe righteous indignation, but in a completely different political demographic.
I think if these two things are stirred together, it is harder to think clearly about this tempest.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The legality would be exactly the same if some dumb kid rubbed "I love Suzie" on it's back.

The difference is it likely wouldn't have even made the local paper, let alone national news if not for the political spin. Therefore, it's a political article first and foremost.

It's your determination, not mine. You have no idea what might have happened. It's a quirky enough story. It might have made the international news. You don't know.

The story is that some idiot did an idiotic act that is clearly against the law. There are clear consequences. It's your choice whether you insist on seeing it through a political lens.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

My problem with this whole story is the sensationalized headline...

Indeed.
ie: NY Times "Someone Wrote ‘Trump’ on a Florida Manatee"
Just horrendous!

[250224]

Someone above wrote that it's the media which needs to exagerate. I suppose this is true, but exageration (unfortunately) also happens at the conservatory front. E.g. in the NYT article [1] it is written:

"The Center for Biological Diversity said it was offering a $5,000 reward for information leading to a conviction “for the cruel and illegal mutilation”...".

- there was NO mutilation, why does the Center for Biological Diversity claim it was?
- in theory I would expect better from such a group. In practice however not, this "group" is a 20 mio/year revenue [2] "enterprise", stories like this seem like a perfect opportunity to stir up things
- oh, and $5,000 reward? Really? There is no better way these 5000 could be spent?

Another snippet:

“This abhorrent action goes beyond the bounds of what is considered cruel and inhumane,” said Elizabeth Fleming, senior Florida representative at Defenders of Wildlife. “I’m disgusted that someone would harm a defenseless creature to send what I can only assume is a political message. We will do everything in our power to help find, arrest and successfully prosecute this coward.”

- coward? Really? How should I trust a person who describes human beings as "cowards" to have any honesty in protecting animals?
- but what wonder, Elizabeth Fleming [3] has a B.A. in Political Science (and a minor in biology) and certainly knows how to best influence people and raise money. Defenders of Wildlife, her employer get ~40 mio / year in grants/revenue. What better than a TRUMP showing Manatee can happen?

Yet another group, the https://www.savethemanatee.org/, made a better impression to me. Didn't see any crass words like coward and e.g. this sentence "Disturbance can drive manatees away from warm-water sanctuaries, often with lethal consequences. These areas must be expanded to protect wintering manatees from cold temperatures and harassment." [4] is, I suppose, spot on. It's a smaller organization, ~1.8 mio/year revenue, and more local, this probably makes a (positive) difference.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/u...tee-trump.html
[2] https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...m-990-2019.pdf
[3] https://defenders.org/people/elizabeth-fleming
[4] https://www.savethemanatee.org/news/...ds-off-policy/

[Manateeman]

One of my manatee crew posed an interesting question today. But first he told a story... Let’s say you are a polar bear...you know...just out for a walk looking for a seal to eat because unlike manatees, you like meat. So you hear this thump, thump, thump and it gets really loud and suddenly you have a dart in your butt. Some creatures you’ve never seen before tie you up and put a collar around your neck that you can’t take off. They Drain out some of your blood, lift you up in some kind of straight jacket. They probe you everywhere and you seem too groggy and powerless to stop them. Then the thump, thump starts again and they fly away leaving you with the worse headache you’ve ever had.
See, if you are a polar bear...what just happened made no sense to you at all.
So my manatee crew asked me this question.
Are we the aliens or the polar bears.
Some of the comments about this crime leave me speechless and sad. With $ 25,000 reward, the perpetrators will be caught and the courts will choose the appropriate remedy. I’m certain their decision will not be based on what word the criminal chose to write nor what word the media chose to report this crime.
The facts are clear. Within the laws protecting manatees, a crime was committed.
Some of the commentators might be like the polar bears. Events lately are beyond their understanding. Some are like the people in the helicopter. They are just trying to help the polar bears to survive.
I began this thread and I ask the moderators to please end it now.
Let us begin...Today... with reconciliation.
Happy trails to you. Each and every one.
Captain Mark and his crew of resting manatees

[250224]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

One of my manatee crew posed an interesting question today. But first he told a story... Let’s say you are a polar bear...you know...just out for a walk looking for a seal to eat because unlike manatees, you like meat. So you hear this thump, thump, thump and it gets really loud and suddenly you have a dart in your butt. Some creatures you’ve never seen before tie you up and put a collar around your neck that you can’t take off. They Drain out some of your blood,

Not what happened here. Remember the posts where people said that Manatees swam to them by their own choosing and are curious towards people.

Some of the comments about this crime leave me speechless and sad. With $ 25,000 reward, the perpetrators will be caught and the courts will choose the appropriate remedy. I’m certain their decision will not be based on what word the criminal chose to write nor what word the media chose to report this crime.

Spechless, sad, 25 K$ reward and, especially, perpetrators, criminal, crime... are not terms a conservationist should use. And if one cannot refrain he or she should think twice when applying it to a mere algae scratching case.

With such scandalized words calibration gets lost and you have nowhere to go (except further polarization, extremes).

Are we the aliens or the polar bears.

Eh? In any case - and you can be happy - Manatee protection is easy, we can zone out some areas and those creatures are fine. Polar bear protection is difficult. Their habitat slowly melts away and nothing can be done.

Some of the commentators might be like the polar bears. Events lately are beyond their understanding.

Quite insulting, if possible please don't do this. There are different opinions, one could hope that there is some cross-pollination, but if not, then well.

I began this thread and I ask the moderators to please end it now.
Let us begin...Today... with reconciliation.

Reconciliation is not a one sided power play.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

I began this thread and I ask the moderators to please end it now.
Let us begin...Today... with reconciliation.

Love this.

How does it work when you end a boisterous discussion with your wife by telling her to be quiet and that we are reconciled?

PS: I agree, several people on this thread are like the polar bear...they don't understand what's going on so they lash out threatening to carve body parts off. Just like the polar bear would to the researchers if the knock out drugs didn't take.

[Manateeman]

WOW. The ignorant posts just keeps on rolling. OK let me try kindergarten level.
The crime is about DISTURBING manatees. Not about their skin.
They DO NOT swim toward people when they are fighting the cold.
The COURTS and not anyone on this forum, will decide crime and punishment.
REWARDS are part of Federal and State LAW.
Citizens can post additional rewards under the LAW. It’s their money.
The judgement of the courts will not be based upon what word was written on the manatee nor what word was chosen by the media.
This is a serious crime and carries serious consequences.
Disturbing manatees can kill them. Fact. Not opinion.
I’ve explained the biological value of manatees TO HUMANS.
If you don’t like this LAW, work to change it.

Some people are living in an alternative universe. They hide behind “privacy” on the forum by divulging nothing personal in their profile, some are not even sailors and yet are constantly commentating on posts. Their favorite tool is to extract sections of posts and use them as quotes. Then they lecture posters who try to contribute facts vs opinions. I never quote people. I think it’s rude.
They enjoy arguing, personal attacks, twisting words and being clever. How can any moderator sit back and do nothing. Please end this thread.
This crime is HARASSMENT of manatees.
The REWARD is $ 25,000 plus Federal and State rewards.
The facts will come out in court and until then, try to get a grip on reality.
Captain Mark
His manatee crew is busy finding more reward money.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

The crime is about DISTURBING manatees.

Agreed, the "crime" is about disturbing manatees.

BUT!!!!!

This misleading story, the national attention and the vitriol is purely about politics.

So far no one on this thread has challenged that it's against the law to disturb a manatee. It's also a "crime" to speed in your car but you don't see people demanding anyone caught speeding gets their foot carved off slowly with a dull rusty butter knife. That's way beyond the pale for doing 5 over on an empty freeway. Similarly, the authorities would likely issue a citation if they caught a guy rubbing the algae off to write "I love Suzie"...they wouldn't rough him up before putting him on the rack to cheering crowds.

Again, if the goal is really to "save" the manatee, people will keep the focus on effective countermeasures and not side track it onto political fights which is what this story is about.