first boat- what do i look for?

[eagertosail]

Hi everyone, i'm not sure if this is the correct spot for this so please excuse me if its not. I'm looking for a bit of guidance on purchasing a first boat. I've had an interest in sailing for awhile and the past few years i've been sailing a Hobie Tandem Island kayak around various water bodies in my area. I'm thinking of selling my kayak and purchasing a first real sailboat. We live on a large wide section of the Ottawa River where i can go about 20km before rapids, and there is another section about 70km i could get to easily if i pull a boat out and go around the rapids. I have a young family that i would like to be able to take with for the weekend or a long weekend.

I see alot of 18-30ft boats for sale in Ontario for anyplace between 1.2 and 8k with various options and then a big jump to 18k to 30k+ for stuff that seem to be the same vintage but possible slightly bigger 25-35ft+ range. Some of the cheaper stuff seems pretty rough but most look to be decent vessels.
I'm wondering what some of things i should be on the lookout for as i start to shop a bit; I dont really want to unknowingly get into something with a bunch of issues i could have seen beforehand.

My ideal boat would be able to sleep 4 (two of us are small), and have a fairly decent galley for us to cook in. And me being the noob that i am, sailing ease should be fairly high as well. An inboard motor probably isnt ideal for the area i have to sail currently. I dont know boat makes and models to save my life but perhaps someone might be able to suggest something to narrow my search a bit? Being mid august, this is not something i am in a hurry to do. I'd rather find the right boat than have buyers remorse as a look at a boat on a trailer all winter. Thank for reading and TIA for any and all input.

[TrentePieds]

Welcome to CF :-)!

Let's see if we can help you along here. I can serve you best I think, by pointing out that there are a great many realities that are not obvious to people who have not a tradition of seafaring behind them. Because of that, some of what I will say may sound negative to you, but it is IMO essential that you come to grips with these things, lest venturing into the world of sailing should prove a serious disappointment for you. So here goes:

The Ottawa River, particularly where you are, is not fit water for a cruising boat. On the other hand, I'm sure there is plenty of pleasure to be had in Georgian Bay and Lake Huron. And, of course, once you are in Georgian Bay, the entire world opens up for you since from there you can, in a suitable boat, get to literally anywhere in the world. The same is true if you consider Lake Ontario.

In Georgian Bay you can keep a boat (or launch a trailerable boat) at Parry Sound. In Lake Ontario you can do the same at Kington. To get to either place from where you are is a driven distance of 250 or 300 Km, if I'm not mistaken, and given that boat, trailer, and clobber will weigh about three or three and a half tonnes, you cannot tow the boat with a Nissan Micra or even a VW Tuareg. You will need a "grown-up" pick-up truck, for preference a 350 series diesel. So that adds to the cost of the boat!

In the Lakes you'll have to haul out the boat in the winter, regardless of her size, and keep her on dry land. To haul and relaunch her my modest 30-footer costs a thousand dollars, so I think you need to do some realistic budgeting before you make any commitments to a boat.

My practice is to put a thousand dollars a month into a dedicated "boat account" to cover the cost of owning and maintaining my 30-footer. It all gets spent, and without even trying I could double that, and I would HAVE to double that if I wanted to cross oceans!

If I were in your shoes, I would contact the Kingston Yacht Club and explore what they have to offer a wannabe sailor. I'm sure that they have both formal sailing classes conducted in honest-to-goodness cruising boats and a pleasant lounge where over a drink you can pick the brains of real-life sailors who know your corner of the world. Here is a link:

https://kingstonyachtclub.ca/welcome

All the best.

TrentePieds







!

[S/V Illusion]

The first and most important thing you should look for is someone local you trust with experience in boat ownership.

The last thing I suggest you do is rely on strangers on the internet.

[eagertosail]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Welcome to CF :-)!

Let's see if we can help you along here. I can serve you best I think, by pointing out that there are a great many realities that are not obvious to people who have not a tradition of seafaring behind them. Because of that, some of what I will say may sound negative to you, but it is IMO essential that you come to grips with these things, lest venturing into the world of sailing should prove a serious disappointment for you. So here goes:

The Ottawa River, particularly where you are, is not fit water for a cruising boat. On the other hand, I'm sure there is plenty of pleasure to be had in Georgian Bay and Lake Huron. And, of course, once you are in Georgian Bay, the entire world opens up for you since from there you can, in a suitable boat, get to literally anywhere in the world. The same is true if you consider Lake Ontario.

In Georgian Bay you can keep a boat (or launch a trailerable boat) at Parry Sound. In Lake Ontario you can do the same at Kington. To get to either place from where you are is a driven distance of 250 or 300 Km, if I'm not mistaken, and given that boat, trailer, and clobber will weigh about three or three and a half tonnes, you cannot tow the boat with a Nissan Micra or even a VW Tuareg. You will need a "grown-up" pick-up truck, for preference a 350 series diesel. So that adds to the cost of the boat!

In the Lakes you'll have to haul out the boat in the winter, regardless of her size, and keep her on dry land. To haul and relaunch her my modest 30-footer costs a thousand dollars, so I think you need to do some realistic budgeting before you make any commitments to a boat.

My practice is to put a thousand dollars a month into a dedicated "boat account" to cover the cost of owning and maintaining my 30-footer. It all gets spent, and without even trying I could double that, and I would HAVE to double that if I wanted to cross oceans!

If I were in your shoes, I would contact the Kingston Yacht Club and explore what they have to offer a wannabe sailor. I'm sure that they have both formal sailing classes conducted in honest-to-goodness cruising boats and a pleasant lounge where over a drink you can pick the brains of real-life sailors who know your corner of the world. Here is a link:

https://kingstonyachtclub.ca/welcome

All the best.

TrentePieds
!

Hi there, and thanks for your input! I would agree with you 100%, that i do not live in sailboat country. In fact, it was a trip to the Kingston waterfront last year(we went to see the Canadian Navy's training sailboat HMCS Oriole) with our 2 boys that sort of started to push me into the direction i'm leaning. That being said, Kingston is a good 3+ hr drive from me and Georgian Bay, is probably a good 4+. I live on and work my own farm and my responsibilities here prevent us from too many extended stays elsewhere during the summer months; in short, having a boat anyplace other than close to home doesnt make much sense...kind of like my wife's grand plan last year after a trip to Prince Edward Island the year before, to buy a cottage there haha! But, having a boat close to home that i'm not going to be able to utilize and fully enjoy doesnt make much sense either.
Thats not to say that i would not like to sail those waters at some point in the future...possibly closer to retirement...but for me, thats still a long ways off!
The local sailing community is small (for reason you've alluded to already), but i know the deep river yacht club offers sailing lessons and other introductory stuff that i think would be more my speed at this point.
Thanks for talking some sense into me!

[Bob Derecktor]

First decide what your needs are and understand the true costs and commitments of owning a boat once you narrow down your search and are seriously considering one particular boat, it's important to have a thorough inspection of other major components such as the engine, propeller, bilge inside a boat's hull, steering system, electrical systems and fuel tank etc.

[Tin Tin]

MacGregor 26, quite light for trailer, good internal accommodation for size , can be driven like a power boat at speed until you get to learn how to sail it. Great for shallow waters with power tilt. It is not prized for its sailing prowess but does the job. Many old salts denigrate this style with a big outboard on the back but the alternative would be a similar trailer sailor with say a 6Hp outboard which will be the more traditional form, https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...ailer-8898491/

[TrentePieds]

I doubt very much that a man whose interest in sailing has been triggered by HMCS Oriole would be much entertained by a McG26 :-)!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Oriole

For a busy man, which we gather from the OP's reply to my reply to the leading post that he is, anything that needs trailering, rigging and de-rigging for each and every sail has to be a total abomination! Surely a far sounder choice of vessel for such a man, particularly one resident in Darkest Ontario, would be a sedan cruiser?

One might also ask in reply to post #5 how a man such as the OP could POSSIBLY have the least notion of what the "true cost" of boat ownership are. Why not assist the man by furnishing credible approximations?

One might also consider, again in post #5, that in the admonition to "have a thorough inspection...components...such as the engine...fuel tank etc ". the word "have" should be replaced with the word "do".

It is tedious to do a survey, but not difficult. Just painstaking, and for people with no maritime tradition behind them, a little daunting. Nevertheless, doing a survey must be part of every seafaring man's education. Here, most generously provided by one of our members, is an introduction to how you do it:

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

TrentePieds

[Hughesfamily]

Hi Eager
My family and I just purchased our first sail boat. We are having an absolute blast. We found our prize ready to sail on the water. The seller said, “well let’s go for a cruise”. He went over everything with us. I could clearly see the boat was looked after and ready to sail. We agreed on a price, 25’ MacGregor on a trailer, all new rigging and lines, 4 stroke mercury 5 hp, 3 sails, we even got the anchor and receipts for new lifting keel bolt, new lifting line, engine etc. $5.5k Cdn. We thought about it overnight and called him to say we would take it. The next day he took us out again. Went over everything, pulled her out of the water, laid the mast down etc. and away we went. Any other way, I think I would be nervous or would have paid considerably less.

We have been out 4 times now on our own. We do a lot of reading and you tubing lol, we also have print outs of point of sail charts and definitions pinned up all over. We test each other daily on terms........ I highly recommend pursuing your dream. We did and are loving it :-)

Steve

[Captain Graham]

Based on your post I would recommend a small trailer sailor.
Something you can move to different locations.

The Catalina 22 is a good option.
It has a swing keel for easy trailering.
You can sleep a family of 4.
Easy to find with 10,000 built.
Has a dinette so the kids can play board games.
Has a popup so at anchor you have more room below
Easy to get parts

Here is a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaR_kQCW9r8

Parts
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-...t/catalina-22/

[GILow]

I’ve always liked the idea of progressing via a trailer sailer of some sort. Big enough to be fun for the weekend but without some of the handling problems of fixed keel boats.

I do feel that boats that are, one the one hand, too big to trailer but too small for extended stays are the worst of both worlds. All the maintenance costs of a boat that lives full time in the water without the comfort of decent space. So, that’s from about 24 feet to 35 feet.

So, a moderately good condition version of any locally popular trailer sailer would be my recommendation. Avoid perfect examples, you are going to put some dents in this thing, and avoid the really tired cheap examples because they will actually be a lot harder to sail and will probably put you and the family off sailing altogether. (There’s plenty of time later in life for a project boat.)

[JPA Cate]

Given the time and work constraints of farming, and with summer being the most pleasant boating season, I wonder if a [gasp!] motor boat might suit this family's needs best.

My husband, Jim, got very good use out of a Catalina 22, with his first wife and two smallish kids. But the drive to the boat (after he decided to put it in a marina so he could leave it rigged), was only about 45 minutes, not 4 hrs. Trailer sailers suit most beginners well, and there is a lot of fun can be had with one. I guess it depends on how care-intensive the farm is during summer.... I wonder also, if a beach cat would work? Very low draft, if the local river is navigable at all????? (Let's take the boat and go camping?)

Ann

[Tayana42]

Eagertosail, I started sailing a long time ago with no experience, not much time and very little money. From what you posted I’d guess close to home on small waters is more of what you will be starting with than ocean crossing voyaging. Consider sleeping 4 and a usable kitchen in a comfortable RV and trailering a small daysailer. I started with a 1971 VW camper and a Sunfish type boat that gave me lots of options and taught me many sailing lessons. But I didn’t have a family of 4 then. So for your situation consider an RV that fits you and that can be resold if you change your plans and a daysailer of 16-22’. Oh, and welcome to sailing. It is a great adventure whether close to home seeking distant shores.

[Chuck34]

Someone above mentioned a Catalina 22. I agree that is a great starter boat, but cramped for a family of 4, even when 2 are small.
Maybe move up a notch to a Catalina 25. Way bigger interior, but still small enough to trailer. A lot harder to trailer but still trailerable.

[Captain Graham]

One think to consider about trailering a sailboat.
Once you get to the launch site you will need to put the mast up (step the mast) and have a large enough tow vehicle.
The larger the sailboat the harder it is to step the mast.

I have owned the follow trailer sailboats.
1. Flying Junior (rowboat with sails)
easy to step the mast solo, very light for towing.
2. Venture 17 (small crawl space cabin)
We did sleep 3 on this boat but only for 1 night
easy to step the mast solo, very light for towing.
3. Yankee Seahorse - much harder to step the mast solo had to use a gin pole setup for mechanical advantage. I even dropped the mast once taking our the back window on my SUV.
Needs a SUV to tow.
4. Kingfisher 20 (a very good ocean going small sailboat)
It has twin keels so putting on and off the trailer was very easy.
easier to step the mast vs the Yankee but still needed a gin pole to step the mast, may need a SUV to tow.
5. Alacrity 19 (another twin keel sailboat basely a smaller version of the Kingfisher 20.
easy to step the mast solo, very light for towing.
I used a counter weight to make stepping the mast easy.

I currently own a Watkins 27 and I would not trailer it because of the weight and it would be very hard to step the mast solo.
My winter storage yard requires the mast down so I have helped them do it each year very easy with 2 people and a hoist.

There are some good mast stepping videos on youtube.
Here is my video (part2) where I show stepping the Alacrity mast with a counter weight.
Watch part1 for an explanation of the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs3iZrvNRFo

[5BTM]

Something comfortable, with seperate sleeping quarters for the parents and for the kids with a common area, ideally 2 heads.

I am a member of a club on Lac StLouis and the most practical boat would be my dockside neighbors Hunter 33 (or 30 something, not sure)

Roomy cockpit, walk-through transom, swim platform, room for water toys on the deck. A floating cottage.

Every year he motors upriver to the Thousand Islands for two weeks, otherwise
goes out on St-Louis, sails for 30 minutes, anchors at the sandbar or Dawkers and it is babysitting time.

Try to find something in Cornwall, St-Francis has some sailing opportunites and it is relatively close to the Thousand Islands.