First solo sail on the ICW

[Blue Crab]

T225: I'm actually here to learn cruising but continually end up in arguments on basic sailing skills.

I'm with you on the main being the one best sail. I'm surprised that it's even worthy of a good argument. But indeed we see it is.

Rolling out the headsail is easier: I take that to be the modern view of better.

Those of us who learned to sail engineless have obviously had different experiences.

Once the point is made, however, that's it. No need for the dead horse. This is the net, not a classroom. Moreover, since we're not getting the visual cues available in one-on-one conversation, netiquette suggests a more casual approach to discussion. A sense of humor is vital. Threats and demeaning comments are bush league as we're all tough guys on the internet. I'm a contract killer in real time. Really.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

T225: I'm actually here to learn cruising but continually end up in arguments on basic sailing skills.

I'm with you on the main being the one best sail. I'm surprised that it's even worthy of a good argument. But indeed we see it is.

Rolling out the headsail is easier: I take that to be the modern view of better.

Those of us who learned to sail engineless have obviously had different experiences.

Once the point is made, however, that's it. No need for the dead horse. This is the net, not a classroom. Moreover, since we're not getting the visual cues available in one-on-one conversation, netiquette suggests a more casual approach to discussion. A sense of humor is vital. Threats and demeaning comments are bush league as we're all tough guys on the internet. I'm a contract killer in real time. Really.

Wow BC, what a different guy you are today. Nice post.

Did someone borrow your computer the other day?

I'm trying out a new vitamin. It increases memory and focus as well as providing you with more stamina. It also makes me hyper. It works also. It improved my chess score by about 200 points. Actually that was Alpha Brain but samie same. It's the Choline.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._detailpages00

Combine those with being attacked out of the blue on another thread by an old buddy, It's party time. My mind stayed locked on the subject.

But now I'm tired of beachcats and Lasers. They are too cold this time of year anyway. Not only that, I gave away my wetsuit and harness when I sold my last catamaran.

Maybe I'll check out a Catalina 22 for daysailing. I hear they sail pretty good with just the jib!

[Blue Crab]

Another point missed.

I say again: Once the point is made, however, that's it. No need for the dead horse. This is the net, not a classroom. Moreover, since we're not getting the visual cues available in one-on-one conversation, netiquette suggests a more casual approach to discussion. A sense of humor is vital. Threats and demeaning comments are bush league as we're all tough guys on the internet. I'm a contract killer in real time. Really.

[thomm225]

Like I said, my mind stayed locked on the subject. (due to Choline)

Plus it's been a slow couple a weeks, and the other fellows seem to be enjoying the argument so much I thought ....why not? Let's continue

That why the horse took a whuppin'



Also I'm just practicing up for when I start cruising. Let's say I'm anchored in a tropical paradise and can get internet .......

[tbodine88]

Still beating the dead horse.

My first boat was a cat rigged dinghy. Just one sail all the way forward.

Easy to sail, never had much problem, never sailed her in winds over 20 knots.

When I got my Potter, she had two sails, so when the winds were up I'd sail with just the jib. Never noticed how hard it was to sail up wind.

When I got the Ericson 32, bigger sails, sailing in the Caribbean with winds that often didn't fall below 15 knots for weeks I followed this same method. Until one day I was trying to get out of Nelsons dock yard Harbour with just the jib up. I tacked back and for for nearly an hour until some one felt sorry for me and came to tow me out with their dinghy and told me that she'd sail better on just the main, going up wind.

enjoy sailing.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

I'm a contract killer in real time. Really.[/I]

Darned lawyers. Now pretending to be Colt Peacemakers.

[four winds]

As in most things generalizations are just that.

All boats are not the same. My Hobie 18 was difficult to tack with the main alone in lighter winds. It needed the jib to help pull it around. A characteristic I often read on the Hobie forum. But they also said it takes two to right it, glad that was not the case.

Did an overnighter the other day on my Pearson in a steady 20 knots for 26 hours. Both sails reefed/partially furled and bumping hull speed most of the way.

Prior back in Boca at Gulfport, with a few friends aboard to relax, would putz around the bay on headsail alone, without tacking issues. Just lazy sailing.

Or if someone on wanted to really sail I'd go full sails in 15 and try to drag the rail. Then roll in the headsail some to stand the boat back up and point out the speed stays the same and pointed better.

It has been stated the Cat 22 will sail fine under jib alone by people who have experience on that boat. The boat in question here. For what it's worth I have observed boats of many makes doing the same on a lazy sail on the bay.

The key for me is I don't let others opinion of me, my sailing skills, or my boat bother me. That's their business and none of mine.

[Cadence]

First of all do it in a sound or a bay on the ICW. You will not learn squat in the ditch. JMHO I've seen experience people going down the ditch with a head sail they knew what they where doing. wind aft and no tacking or jibing.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Nice explanation Jim, but any sailor with experience knows that if you are going to have only one sail on a sloop rigged boat for all conditions it would be the mainsail. (the OP was asking which sail if only one)

Did you miss the that that first sentence would be seen as a bit of an insult (implies anyone disagreeing with you is not experienced or is stupid) or did you do it intentionally?

Originally Posted by thomm225

How are you going to turn the boat into the wind with just a jib? (at low or zero speed) You cannot, the wind will blow you off. I'm sure you know this from having balanced out your boat while heaving too.

You tack to same way as with just a main or both sails up, by getting enough way on to make it thru the eye of the wind.

My experience on a Catalina 27 was that the boat sails acceptably with just a headsail. Two days into a 1 week sail up to Vancouver Island and back the main blew out above the top reef. We sailed into Sooke Harbor and back out, across the Straits of Juan de Fuca to Port Angeles and ultimately Seattle, with some motoring when it was dead calm but mostly sailing in winds from near calm up to 18-20kt. I even managed to sail into Mats Mats Bay alone with just the headsail in almost calm conditions. Look it up on a chart and you will understand what a challenge that was.

I expect that the relative ease will depend on the particular boat and the particular sails it has.

[markpierce]

Many sailors are lazy/fearful about hoisting sails. Regardless, if flying only the jib due to strong winds, I'd do it going away from the wind.

Sailboats look best with sails up. Like the mean it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Did you miss the that that first sentence would be seen as a bit of an insult (implies anyone disagreeing with you is not experienced or is stupid) or did you do it intentionally?

You would need to read the previous 40 or so posts on several different threads (over a few years) between me and the other gentleman to understand that there was a bit of a battle going on.

As far as mains and jibs, it's your boat, chose the sail you want.

If you want to really know which sail does what, race one design. (sloop rig) You will learn fast and there will be no arguments.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You would need to read the previous 40 or so posts on several different threads (over a few years) between me and the other gentleman to understand that there was a bit of a battle going on.

As far as mains and jibs, it's your boat, chose the sail you want.

If you want to really know which sail does what, race one design. (sloop rig) You will learn fast and there will be no arguments.

So that fact you are having a long term disagreement with one person justifies insulting not just that person but anyone disagreeing with you? Or was that just sloppy writing that did not convey your intended meaning?

After 29 years sailing, teaching sailing to 700-1000 students and about 10 yr of racing (some on one design:Laser, Star, Cal40 (not strictly one design but we paid the most attention to the other Cal40s)) I think I've figured out how sails work and that they work somewhat differently on different boats.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Or was that just sloppy writing ?

Looks like you are trying to take this rather constructive thread in a negative direction with rude comments and the like.

You also seem combative.

I try not to get involved in such things on CF. (I'm not arguing the points already made on this thread again. Reread it if you need help.)

I'm just here to learn cruising and maybe which tropical paradise is a good to be anchored in.

Glad to know though that you are continuing to learning sailing. Keep it up.

Good Luck,

Tom

[tbodine88]

Warning Thread Drift

I'm just here to learn cruising and maybe which tropical paradise is a good to be anchored in.

I liked anchoring in the Bahamas and St Martin, but Especially St Thomas. Spent a month on the hook there. I loved it

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Adelie

You tack to same way as with just a main or both sails up, by getting enough way on to make it thru the eye of the wind.

Sorry I didn't read all your post earlier.

Looks like you didn't read mine either.

When I said how would you turn the boat with just a jib, I was talking sitting still or almost still with no forward movement like in the start of a race. (no water flow over the rudder)

You ain't makin' ....... " no way " in that situation.

Plus I wasn't talkin' tackin, I was talking steering the boat with the sails.