Gender roles in sailing and cruising

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I'll ask this in a different way. How many of the guys here would say their wives/girlfriends/partners are comfortable taking the boat out without you. I'm a female and I'm just calling it as I see it from the other side. If she doesn't have the skills/confidence/time behind the wheel and it's just the two of you cruising together, than I'm asking why is this?

My wife would not be comfortable taking our boat out without me. The reasons are many and complex, and her physical limitations from fibromyalgia have a good deal to do with it.


I think that there are relatively fewer women than men who have a background that includes the sort of adventurer activities that are typical of people who become the impetus behind cruising as a lifestyle choice. Engineer/diver/climber/pilot/biker/sailor/skydiver/skiier. I see a few relationships around me involving a woman with that kind of background but it's far more common when it's just the guy.

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I personally don't "get it" when the women opt out. But it's pretty clear some do, and they don't much care for the other women who are more hands on. Here's an example: my friend Sue was in the bosun's chair at the spreader of their 40 footer, sewing on a new spreader boot, and a yacht club woman said to her, "You shouldn't be doing that. It's your husband's job." There are women who want to be treated like a princess--they're out there, and lots of the guys here on CF have had to deal with them, too. In a relationship, it's way too much hassle to try and make someone do something they don't want to do, even if it would benefit both partners (assuming only two).

The social pressures that reinforce traditional roles are strong and affect both men and women. I often find it stifling.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The social pressures that reinforce traditional roles are strong and affect both men and women. I often find it stifling.

Do you see this changing around the sailing community? Ann pointed out a backwards woman in the marina shouting something a bit sexist at another woman. Maybe just a joke? Dunno.
On the flip side, some racing crews in our marina collectively shame the other boats with all-male crews in a good-natured way. You might say it simply started with guys hoping to hang with girls, but in any event there is now a proud status when the crew is mixed. You can argue motivation, but the results are apparent.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My honest answer is no, she would not be comfortable. But neither would I.

...

Funny, but my partner was just reading over my shoulder, so I quote: “No, I wouldn’t [comfortable taking the boat out without me]. But I would be fine going out with someone else. I don’t need you (she says, lovingly ).”

I’m exactly the same. Our boat is difficult to handle for either of us solo in close quarters. She’s not too much to sail, but getting on and off the dock requires two people. I’m sure both of us could do it solo, but neither of us would be comfortable doing so.

Equally inept I suppose [emoji2].

Oh, clarification. I didn't mean solo!! I meant she takes the boat with her friends as crew. I ask this because if it's only the two of you, and the guy part of the equation becomes incapacitated, could she handle the boat? Could she get it back around to pick you up in a MOB situation? Which actually is single-handing if you think about it. I was recently teaching some "advanced" women sailors and many of them referred to their husband's boat. They want to learn how to be better sailors and yet they don't see their boat as their own. And they were, to a woman, shocked by the thought of taking the boat out without their partners. It's my opinion that they're not better sailors because they don't actually ever take charge despite what many men say.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by Jammer

You know, that post is almost like Shakespeare. Hilarious, tragic, and frightening all at once. I hope that, like Shakespeare, you're writing for your audience, and don't actually think like that.


I mean, it's more like the sort of stuff that they post at Cruising Anarchy, than the stuff at Cruising Anarchy is itself.

As a parent of college age children, I have been exposed to this ideology thru western colleges and universities, who indoctrinate this "group think" punitively on the student body. The vast majority (at this time) of people are still hetero-normative, but people age 30 and below display greater tendencies of gender confusion. Nature vs nurture? I don't know the answer. I can only postulate the correlation of the use of synthetic growth hormones in dairy,beef products, the plasticizer compound BPA in plastics and heavy soy bean use in all food products. All these things metabolize as estrogen in the human body.
Now, I don't really care about a persons personal choices. It's there business, not mine. BUT, when they become militant about their own ideology and try to force me to believe as well, trying to insert their opinion into my relationships, that is where object. Whatever gender role a couple decides to adapt, its there business. Why even comment about it? Live and let live.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

What he said.

Don't get me wrong, I actually believe there are differences between the xx and xy. It's just most of them can't be proven either way in a nature vs nurture argument, so I hesitate to to make any public claims. If we get together for a beer though I will feel free to assert away.

But it has always bothered me that the average woman shouldn't be expected to pull herself back in if she suddenly found herself dangling from a windowsill. It's just not fair...

It's more confusing than you might think: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/gonads-xy

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Oh, clarification. I didn't mean solo!! I meant she takes the boat with her friends as crew. I ask this because if it's only the two of you, and the guy part of the equation becomes incapacitated, could she handle the boat? Could she get it back around to pick you up in a MOB situation? Which actually is single-handing if you think about it. I was recently teaching some "advanced" women sailors and many of them referred to their husband's boat. They want to learn how to be better sailors and yet they don't see their boat as their own. And they were, to a woman, shocked by the thought of taking the boat out without their partners. It's my opinion that they're not better sailors because they don't actually ever take charge despite what many men say.

I have no problem with her friends taking the boat as much as I have no problem of her taking the car for a drive. Not even a concern. Her crew must be willing financially to make good on whatever damages may unfortunately occur. If they can, then be my guest.
My question to you is; can you imagine that there are some people in this world who don't want to take charge? That the extra responsibility of "being in charge" just does not appeal to them and that they wouldn't even bother going on a boat if they had to (forced) to be in charge? There are all kinds of people in this world, not all of them think like you.

[Adelie]

Both the mothership and the dinghy are in my name. In both cases it was because I needed my wife’s signature on registration paperwork that I only got when I arrived at the Dept of Motor Vehicles. In both cases I had to scratch her name off the forms plus fill out an extra form explaining why she’d been scratched off.

Given the value of each its not a big deal. If we had a more serious boat I would have sucked up the extra 3-4hr waiting line to get her signature and come back again.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Guys, just ask yourselves this - would you let your partner take the boat out by herself with her friends? If you can say, heck yeah, then that's parity.

No let involved, she knows how to sail and knows her limitations. I would be happier if she went sailing without me from time to time.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by Adelie

No let involved, she knows how to sail and knows her limitations. I would be happier if she went sailing without me from time to time.

Thats funny! My last job there was a girl pilot who couldn't understand why I didn't want to be pilot in command even though I was more experienced. I was much more happy just looking out the window and counting moose.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

I have no problem with her friends taking the boat as much as I have no problem of her taking the car for a drive. Not even a concern. Her crew must be willing financially to make good on whatever damages may unfortunately occur. If they can, then be my guest.
My question to you is; can you imagine that there are some people in this world who don't want to take charge? That the extra responsibility of "being in charge" just does not appeal to them and that they wouldn't even bother going on a boat if they had to (forced) to be in charge? There are all kinds of people in this world, not all of them think like you.

'Her crew' must be financially willing to pay for damages...? That tells me all I need to know.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by gamayun

'Her crew' must be financially willing to pay for damages...? That tells me all I need to know.

Oh boy, here we go! Another radical feminist who wants all the fun but none of the responsibility. Tells us all we need to know about you. Keep posting your distorted world view so we can all have a good laugh.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Oh boy, here we go! Another radical feminist who wants all the fun but none of the responsibility. Tells us all we need to know about you. Keep posting your distorted world view so we can all have a good laugh.

I'm gonna cut you some slack because you're kinda a newbie here

[ShellBack89]

After 5 pages of this, I’ll return to my regular scheduled program. At least watching senators make asses of themselves is comical. Sad for the American people but comical none the less.

[drewm3i]

Good Lord! 5 pages on this garbage? Some people just love to be offended and then impose their ideology on others to ameliorate the alleged abuse. If a woman wants to be a captain, be one. If people act ugly in response, get over it and go on with your life. Don't expect everyone to accept or cater to your notions about anything. Life is too rich to sweat such trivial stuff.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I'll ask this in a different way. How many of the guys here would say their wives/girlfriends/partners are comfortable taking the boat out without you. I'm a female and I'm just calling it as I see it from the other side. If she doesn't have the skills/confidence/time behind the wheel and it's just the two of you cruising together, than I'm asking why is this?

Not all ladies want that responsibility. Not all ladies have the desire to captain the vessel or be in charge, some like the various roles divided. An example is, im a trained motor mechanic ,it would take a very long time and quite some desire for my partner to train upto the same skill level as me, my partner is more than happy for me to take care of system maintainence and repairs.

Being quite an american centric forum it seems at times views held are universal, not all cultures view the world the same . Many cruising couples are happy with "Blue & Pink" jobs, thus it isnt about a lack of equality its about agreed responsibilities that enable a team to function and function well.

I have a guy crew onboard at the moment as well as my partner. Im the captain regardless of the genders crewing. The reason for this is , its my boat, i have alot invested in it, i also have the most experience and wear the full extent of the consequences if something goes wrong. As someone mentioned earlier , we dont have commitee meetings. Its not equal, i have alot more skin in the game than they do.