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happyaslarry · 06-02-2019, 19:00

Hello,

Nice to join you. I am sure there is a wealth of opinions and information here, and passion, of course.

I'm curious, is there a general rule of thumb for asking price vs paid price? I've heard as much as 30-40% off the asking price is an inoffensive place to start discussions, assuming the boat is as described.

I'm particularly interested in a Hans Christian 33...it seems that their asking price is $60k-$120k...so I'm really trying to hone it in if anyone knows. Obviously it depends on condition, but let's assume a moderate condition...not much work to do, and nothing major to panic about.

Thank you.
Larry.

Paul L · 06-02-2019, 19:18

If you know a broker, ask them for the sold boats listing for the boat you are looking at. It will give you a feeling for actual prices. There is no rule on an offerring price. Some owners are realistic and others are dreaming. Determine what the boat is worth to you and then offer.

happyaslarry · 06-02-2019, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L

If you know a broker, ask them for the sold boats listing for the boat you are looking at. It will give you a feeling for actual prices. There is no rule on an offerring price. Some owners are realistic and others are dreaming. Determine what the boat is worth to you and then offer.

Alas, I don't know a broker and the one that I did just contact seemed reluctant to share. In addition to that, would they not be inclined to inflate prices on their list to both make them look good, and also give me a false sense of what to pay? Am I right to think of brokers as the used car dealers of the water? Is that too uncharitable?

billknny · 06-02-2019, 20:22

There is not a "Rule of Thumb", it is a very individual thing. Some buyers are flexible, some are not. Some greatly overprice their boats, some do not.I know a lot of people find that ambiguity difficult to deal with and want a simple rule. There is not one.

You need to know what you want, and what it is worth to you. That is the key, the asking price almost doesn't matter. If the price is right TO YOU you got a good deal. If the price was right for the seller HE got a good deal. If you feel those are mutually exclusive, you are going to have a problem.

If you approach buying a boat as a "competition" where you feel you need to "win" and the seller needs to "lose" I can guarantee that you will not pay the best price for the best boat.

You want to buy a boat from someone smart and careful. Smart and careful people will not negotiate a deal where they feel they have "lost".

Almost more than any other subject, there is a lot of ignorant and downright dumb advice here about how to buy a boat.

happyaslarry · 06-02-2019, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by billknny

There is not a "Rule of Thumb", it is a very individual thing. Some buyers are flexible, some are not. Some greatly overprice their boats, some do not.I know a lot of people find that ambiguity difficult to deal with and want a simple rule. There is not one.

You need to know what you want, and what it is worth to you. That is the key, the asking price almost doesn't matter. If the price is right TO YOU you got a good deal. If the price was right for the seller HE got a good deal. If you feel those are mutually exclusive, you are going to have a problem.

If you approach buying a boat as a "competition" where you feel you need to "win" and the seller needs to "lose" I can guarantee that you will not pay the best price for the best boat.

You want to buy a boat from someone smart and careful. Smart and careful people will not negotiate a deal where they feel they have "lost".

Almost more than any other subject, there is a lot of ignorant and downright dumb advice here about how to buy a boat.

To the novice buyer, I'm sure you can relate that it seems a little convoluted at first - especially if the last thing you want to do, or accidentally appear to be doing is seeking to 'win'.

I have a feeling because my budget isn't unlimited, that it will take some time to find the right boat, but I appreciate the the information you have offered up to at least guide me some of the way.

Thank you.

Paul L · 06-02-2019, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyaslarry

Alas, I don't know a broker and the one that I did just contact seemed reluctant to share. In addition to that, would they not be inclined to inflate prices on their list to both make them look good, and also give me a false sense of what to pay? Am I right to think of brokers as the used car dealers of the water? Is that too uncharitable?

It comes as a print out from the same company that does yachtworld.com and is actually on a private site soldboats.com. Surveyors also tupically have access to it. Brokers are often overly rosy and will blow off people they think are looky loos. There are a few good ones.

**GordMay** · 07-02-2019, 04:29

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Larry.

letsgetsailing3 · 07-02-2019, 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by billknny

There is not a "Rule of Thumb", it is a very individual thing. Some buyers are flexible, some are not. Some greatly overprice their boats, some do not.I know a lot of people find that ambiguity difficult to deal with and want a simple rule. There is not one.

You need to know what you want, and what it is worth to you. That is the key, the asking price almost doesn't matter. If the price is right TO YOU you got a good deal. If the price was right for the seller HE got a good deal. If you feel those are mutually exclusive, you are going to have a problem.

If you approach buying a boat as a "competition" where you feel you need to "win" and the seller needs to "lose" I can guarantee that you will not pay the best price for the best boat.

You want to buy a boat from someone smart and careful. Smart and careful people will not negotiate a deal where they feel they have "lost".

Almost more than any other subject, there is a lot of ignorant and downright dumb advice here about how to buy a boat.

The OP is just asking how to find out what boats are actually selling for. It's not an unreasonable question, and it's not an indication that he's trying to win a competition. Knowing what a particular model has sold for is, in fact, an indication of the market. See: real estate, stocks.

Keeping sales prices a secret breaks a fundamental rule of markets: transparency. More than anyone, it benefits the brokers, who become very necessary when nobody else knows what things are selling for.

**boatman61** · 07-02-2019, 06:03

Apr 5, 2017 · Currently there are four Hans Christian 33s offered for sale in the U.S. at asking prices ranging from $95,000 to $120,000, and nine boats have been reported sold within the last year at an average selling price of $89,100.

Lowcountry · 07-02-2019, 06:31

There is no rule of thumb regarding asking prices, as every seller and every boat is different. To assume that an initial offer of 30-40% off of asking price wouldn't be offensive is a reach. If I'm selling my boat for $100k and someone offers me $60k for it, I'm likely to counter with an offer to sell at $120k. An offer 40% below asking would be a ridiculous lowball, and I would be tempted to not even respond to it. You should absolutely find a buyer's broker who will share soldboats.com information with you and help you determine what a reasonable offer on any particular HC33 would be. I have been watching the HC33 market lately myself. There aren't many good options out there at present, although the one in Ontario seems to be nice, despite the low-effort listing by the listing broker.

Kenomac · 07-02-2019, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Apr 5, 2017 · Currently there are four Hans Christian 33s offered for sale in the U.S. at asking prices ranging from $95,000 to $120,000, and nine boats have been reported sold within the last year at an average selling price of $89,100.

Phil,

How did you obtain the average selling price number? Was it a search on yachtworld, if so how?

Thanks

wolfgal · 07-02-2019, 07:07

the HC33 boats are a long-time favourite of mine. i've poured over the owner's association and have learned so much about how different owners have kept their boats and how.

as a starting point, i suggest you do as well.

knowing the year made and the hin number (i.e., the yard in which she was made), if the decks were screwed from above or below... there's tons of things you can look into --without knowing the actual condition of the boat-- that will help you determine how well this particular boat was built and the likelihood of the different problems her owners have or have not faced.

combine this together with where she's been sailing (tropics or not, freshwater or not) and you've got a starting point.

i used to keep track of all of the HC33s (had an elaborate list full of info on each boat)... but decided to be less obsessional and threw it away.

good luck to you. the HC33 is a beauty of a boat!

Lowcountry · 07-02-2019, 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Phil,

How did you obtain the average selling price number? Was it a search on yachtworld, if so how?

Thanks

He likely got it from soldboats.com. Average selling price of 35-40 year old boats can be problematic because condition and equipment is going to vary wildly. My educated guess is that good HC 33's that are well-maintained, equipped and updated are going to be around the $100k mark, and boats that are not well-equipped, maintained and updated are going to be around $60k-$80k. Of course there will be exceptions where some owners think that their boats are nicer than they may actually be and are asking more than the boats are worth.