Has Cruising Become Too Artificial, Too Expensive, Too Regulated ?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Statistical

I think you need to take a puff and relax.

Also WWIII seriously. If there is a WWIII cruising fees will be the least of your problems. Not starving and avoiding the cannibal rape gangs during the coming nuclear winter will be priority number one.

cannibal rape gangs, wow , I need to get out more !!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In my personal case Id say cruising has got way easier and less bureaucratic . I live in a country with virtually zero documentation requirements. I can buy and use a boat the same as I buy and use my fridge ( no Im not trying to sail my fridge )

Since accession to The EU and particularly from the adoption of the Single European Act ( Mastricht Treaty) it has become hugely less bureaucratic for me to cruise the EU countries. no check-in, very light touch controls , fantastic , The Euro is just cream on the cake . I come and go with all the freedoms akin to my domestic situation . The "four freedoms" has seen a huge reduction in hassle and inter country bureaucracy ( though sometimes the Portuguese need to be remined of these facts imho )

and a dig at Brexit Boatie

yet another UK EU initiative !!! ( the irony , leaving a system you yourself designed !!)

She was pro the Common Market but very much against the takeover by Brussels..

"We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level, with a European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels,"

The United Kingdom, under the Conservative Party premiership of Margaret Thatcher, claimed credit for framing of the SEA. It was Thatcher's nominee to the Delors Commission, Lord Cockfield, who, as the commissioner responsible for the Single Market, drew up the initial White Paper.[15]

For Thatcher, the Act represented the realisation of Britain's long-standing "free-trade" vision for Europe. Moving beyond the tariff-free commitment of the Common Market, the act would dismantle the "insidious" barriers to intra-Community trade posed by "differing national standards, various restrictions on the provision of services, [and the] exclusion of foreign firms from public contracts".[16] To create a single market with purchasing power "bigger than Japan, bigger than the United States", Britain and her partners were committed to:

Action to make it possible for insurance companies to do business throughout the Community [for the British economy financial services played an outsized role]. Action to let people practice their trades and professions freely throughout the Community. Action to remove the customs barriers and formalities so that goods can circulate freely and without time-consuming delays. Action to make sure that any company could sell its goods and services without let or hindrance. Action to secure free movement of capital throughout the Community.[16]

In promoting the Single Market, in the SEA Thatcher made compromises that a growing body of opinion in her Conservative Party were to regard as fatal. Pressured by German Chancellor Helmut Kohl she accepted the references, she had hoped to avoid, to a future European Union and to a common currency (monetary union) Arguing that, building on these concessions the Maastricht and subsequent treaties, transcended the Single Market vision and committed Britain to an evolving "federal Europe"
That was when there were just 9 countries..

Thankfully she was against joining the Euro and actively campaigned against it.. the value of being able to independently regulate one's own currency was all to clear.

[goboatingnow]

I actually think with the internet and the general trend towards mass tourism and cheap flights , well until disrupted by Covis, boat bureaucracy has actually become less, many things that required physical presence can now be done online , lots of processes are streamlined or have been removed even the US has easier boat entry policies then 20 years ago not withstanding 9-11. The EU had very strict limits on non VAT boats ( 6 months ) now has a simple system , 18 months , Schengen has removed all these national idiosyncrasies etc .

Many country shut their yacht ports of entry as these became unused ( remember Cavtat in Croatia). Countries that were effectively closed are now open ( many former eastern block , Albania etc ) . Friends of mine sailed to St Peterburg in 2019 with very little issues , a process that was nearly impossible 20 years previously.

The downside is because boating has become more popular is people see more ways to extract money , particularly commercial operators and town municipalities.

So more bureaucratic no , more expensive yes , too expensive , clearly not ,more regulated , Id suggest its less regulated , artificial , who knows that's entirely subjective

[goboatingnow]

Thankfully she was against joining the Euro and actively campaigned against it.. the value of being able to independently regulate one's own currency was all to clear

indeed the 1976 crisis in sterling and the IMF bailout aptly demonstrated how controlling your own currency is a great idea

For Thatcher, the Act represented the realisation of Britain's long-standing "free-trade" vision for Europe. Moving beyond the tariff-free commitment of the Common Market, the act would dismantle the "insidious" barriers to intra-Community trade posed by "differing national standards, various restrictions on the provision of services

Hence the UK support for the RCD

by the way the UK draft white paper also prompted free movement of labour, an issue in the Brexit process

[BilgeRat]

Just too much trouble anymore.
Slip availabley, part$, regulation$, travel restrictions, & COVID.

Might as well buy an airplane/helo. The only difference is the license. And that too will probably change in the near future. Already have to have a safety certificate in most places.

But I predict manned quadcopters will soon be the next trend. Still need a license.
Personl eVTOLs. https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/...l-now-on-sale/

[nextis12]

Originally Posted by Shrew

This is a 10 year old thread resurrected twice. So if we bring it back to the scope of the original post.....



Has anything really changed? Have we solved the problem in a decade? Is it really a problem at all?

No regulation problem. Some good irony in the thread… the billion new regulations are going to kill cruising but the complaints are about anchorages being to crowded.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

indeed the 1976 crisis in sterling and the IMF bailout aptly demonstrated how controlling your own currency is a great idea



Hence the UK support for the RCD

by the way the UK draft white paper also prompted free movement of labour, an issue in the Brexit process

And the euro is a great example of how nations tied to each others ankles stumble from one crisis to another unable to do anything except try and prop each other up from 2008 to today...
Luckily the Independent currencies have been there to keep bailing them out as the trench deepens..
Trouble is Brussels just buys more shovels..

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by BilgeRat

Just too much trouble anymore.
Slip availabley, part$, regulation$, travel restrictions, & COVID.

Might as well buy an airplane/helo. The only difference is the license. And that too will probably change in the near future. Already have to have a safety certificate in most places.

But I predict manned quadcopters will soon be the next trend. Still need a license.
Personl eVTOLs. https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/...l-now-on-sale/

I can't live in a quadcopter
And I don't need a berth/slip.

[Barkingmad]

I think things are easier depending on how you decide to "live" (current covid situation aside).

Summer cruising in Canada is great.

I personally no longer have any interest in ocean crossings. If I want someplace warm in winter I'll fly in and charter something more suitable for a couple weeks playing at anchor with the odd short sail thrown in to chek out some different sceanery.
As they say cruising is 85% living at anchor, I'll take the floating condo for my "vacation".
Personally my dream cruise is a solo excursion to Baffin Island.

[Kd9truck]

It seems after following the global contributors over the past couple of years that the answer is yes. I am glad to live where I do, lots of options, not so much on book showing and stamp collecting.

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions”

Enter the internet.

Before the internet and all the “posters” and “bloggers” and “likes” tweets, and instagram ers we just sailed, no “sharing”, no emojis, no blocking,……
NO POLITICAL OPINIONS or web trolls, or toxic communication with a person in there basement pretending to be something they are not.

The sailing community was smaller and less exposed to those who operate intellectually unconscious of there impact, navigation systems, weather forecasts, communication with those “on shore” is infinitely better, but at a cost.

When you find paradise don’t tell anyone, lest you like cruse ships and regulations.

Cheers

[boatman61]

Its definitely a long way from the days when one could enter a country with just your ships papers, no passport needed.. and that was as recent as the 50's/60's.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And the euro is a great example of how nations tied to each others ankles stumble from one crisis to another unable to do anything except try and prop each other up from 2008 to today...
Luckily the Independent currencies have been there to keep bailing them out as the trench deepens..
Trouble is Brussels just buys more shovels..

says a man living in the EU

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its definitely a long way from the days when one could enter a country with just your ships papers, no passport needed.. and that was as recent as the 50's/60's.

the good old days were just bad, yachting in the 50s was elitist , I remember as a kid when we tried to access Franco Spain by road, in 1968 , we arrived after the border closed for he night and had to sleep in the car surrounded by armed soldiers till the crossing re-opended in the morning

These days , i drive through with a smile, I sailed from France to greece recently, no a stamp , not a request for paper , nothing , zero

I can order parts on the internet , DHL and Fedex deliver everywhere , briliant.

Cruisers have it easy, thats why there are 1000s more in boating then before

"Standing tough under stars and stripes
We can tell
This dream's in sight
You've got to admit it
At this point in time that it's clear
The future looks bright
On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from New York to Paris
Well by seventy-six we'll be A.O.K.
What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free"

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

says a man living in the EU

Not complaining.. I have had 7 pay rises in the last year..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

the good old days were just bad, yachting in the 50s was elitist , I remember as a kid when we tried to access Franco Spain by road, in 1968 , we arrived after the border closed for he night and had to sleep in the car surrounded by armed soldiers till the crossing re-opended in the morning

These days , i drive through with a smile, I sailed from France to greece recently, no a stamp , not a request for paper , nothing , zero

I can order parts on the internet , DHL and Fedex deliver everywhere , briliant.

Cruisers have it easy, thats why there are 1000s more in boating then before

"Standing tough under stars and stripes
We can tell
This dream's in sight
You've got to admit it
At this point in time that it's clear
The future looks bright
On that train all graphite and glitter
Undersea by rail
Ninety minutes from New York to Paris
Well by seventy-six we'll be A.O.K.
What a beautiful world this will be
What a glorious time to be free"

Musta been non-stop.. every marina I have ever been in in the EU requests paper for boat and ID.. even more so with the migration and drug problems.. both before and since Brexit.