Ignoring Negative Voices

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The attitude of "that's already been asked" seems to prevail also. Let me tell you this: It has ALL been asked, if the answers are already here, and no repeat questions should be asked, maybe no forum is needed?

I believe that attitude is actually a phase of being on the internet. I went through it and when I explained my disappointment with people not doing their research and homework before asking a basic 101 question, a good friend called me up on the TELEPHONE and explained it: "Either they don't know how or they're lazy. You can fix the first and never the last."


So I made up a long list of frequently asked questions WITH answers and use them as LINKS when the same old-same old comes up.


In some cases, however, it remains appropriate to ask the OP to do his own homework, i.e., how much does something cost? when the something is easily definable and found easily on Amazon or eBay or McMaster Carr or West Marine. That's just lazy, right there.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Not overly concerned Mike, you may have noticed I'm not shy about hitting back publicly as opposed to telling tales to teacher when no one's looking..

Yes... I do the same. I don't run to the teacher if someone punches me in the nose. I punch back. Which is why we've both been bloodied at times, but I think we both can still carry on civil discussions -- most of the time .

But this approach is in direct contrast to how this forum attempts to operate. The CF approach is for people to NOT punch back, but run to the teacher, or in this case the mods, when they feel offended or insulted.

This is exactly what I think is the root cause of the problem with CF. It creates an atmosphere where people never get to hash out their differences, or allow the community to communicate its own standards to newcomers. It stifles the natural process of developing social norms, smothering disputes, but never truly putting them out.

I think this is what has led some people to feeling that CF has an underlying surliness that is absent from other forums. On the surface, it's all "nice", but that surface can be pretty thin at times.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Foswick

What do you mean "debunked"? Did you think I was making a claim that could be proven or disproved?

By that I meant the civility expressed by everyone who joined in to this discussion.


And I agree, it's not a zero sum game to win, just pointing out how friendly everyone is.

[Katapult Mike]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I have been here a long time. Yes there are too many negative responses. I'm on maybe half a dozen forums daily, on various subjects. This much negativity on CF is rare and CF wins in that category. It's downright embarrassing sometimes.
People seem to get angry or frustrated over semantics, lack of knowledge or just some questions.

The attitude of "that's already been asked" seems to prevail also. Let me tell you this: It has ALL been asked, if the answers are already here, and no repeat questions should be asked, maybe no forum is needed?

I guess I've just been running with the wrong crowd and hanging out on the wrong forums. I still think people are nice on CF compared to other forums I visit. Can anyone tell what the ones dealing with sailing and crusing that have nicer people than CF? Honestly, I haven't found them.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I believe that attitude is actually a phase of being on the internet. I went through it and when I explained my disappointment with people not doing their research and homework before asking a basic 101 question, a good friend called me up on the TELEPHONE and explained it: "Either they don't know how or they're lazy. You can fix the first and never the last."


So I made up a long list of frequently asked questions WITH answers and use them as LINKS when the same old-same old comes up.


In some cases, however, it remains appropriate to ask the OP to do his own homework, i.e., how much does something cost? when the something is easily definable and found easily on Amazon or eBay or McMaster Carr or West Marine. That's just lazy, right there.

The problem more and more on the internet is 80% of what you get is selling something and will pop up wherever you are after asking. And the other 10% is 'close to what you need to know' but not quite the same, followed by another 10% "winners"! But I do use it daily and yes it is very helpful sometimes. I do the same, keep links. Now I have too many links.......

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Katapult Mike

I guess I've just been running with the wrong crowd and hanging out on the wrong forums. I still think people are nice on CF compared to other forums I visit. Can anyone tell what the ones dealing with sailing and crusing that have nicer people than CF? Honestly, I haven't found them.

I find SN to be generally less surely than CF.

[Kettlewell]

After all this discussion I think one thing we could all do more of is go back and read the OP before responding to whatever the last person said. I've been trying to do that and it really helps to keep me on track in not getting into negativity. Sure, many questions have been asked before, but there are always new wrinkles. Plus, new posters often have no idea of what discussion has gone on before, and it is silly to expect anyone to read through pages of FAQs searching for things that answer their own question.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Sure, many questions have been asked before, but there are always new wrinkles. Plus, new posters often have no idea of what discussion has gone on before, and it is silly to expect anyone to read through pages of FAQs searching for things that answer their own question.

On this note, this is a discussion forum. It's not a library, or a database, or any sort of organized compendium of knowledge. It's a "discussion" forum. People come here to "discuss" subjects related to cruising. So, if someone asks a question that you have some expertise on, or interests you, discuss it.

That's not to say past threads have no relevance. For simple questions, with simple answers, it might be better to just read a recent thread. But most of the answers to common cruising and boating questions often comes down to some version of: "It depends..." And at that point, the discussion ensues.

The other wonderful thing about forum structures is that no one is forced to read, let alone respond to, a question or thread. So if the question bothers you, or you have no insight or interest in it, just move on.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

a good friend called me up on the TELEPHONE and explained it:

In some cases, however, it remains appropriate to ask the OP to do his own homework,

I agree, a real phone call talking to a real person will many times get much better results than an email that gets buried in a stack of a couple hundred other emails that a company may receive on any given day.

Homework? wasn't that something that went out of fashion a generation or two ago?

[Kettlewell]

So if the question bothers you, or you have no insight or interest in it, just move on.

Words to live by on the Internet!

[Katapult Mike]

Quote:
So if the question bothers you, or you have no insight or interest in it, just move on.

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Words to live by on the Internet!

[MicHughV]

After all this discussion I think one thing we could all do more of is go back and read the OP before responding to whatever the last person said.

I think that is the problem right there, as more often than not, the OP initially poses a question, or is looking for a response, etc....never to be heard from again.

What follows is invariable a squabble between folks presenting a different point of view, with no interaction whatsoever from the OP, who has long left town.

[Mike OReilly]

I don't think it is always necessary to keep referring back to the OP. Once again, this is a discussion forum. Discussions have a natural flow that may start at one point, but evolve from there. The idea that the OP somehow dictates the conversation is antithetic to how human conversation works.

Question forms range from specific like, "is a Rafiki-37 a true cutter", to the more general like, "what is the best way to sail a Rafiki-37 downwind," to the more philosophical like, "why would anyone buy a Rafiki-37 anyway?". Point is, not all questions are created equal, and the thread trajectory is also different for each one.

If the OP poses a specific question, then usually the correct answer appears in the first few responses. The thread could be done at that point, but sometimes it spawns a broader (version II) question. I don't think it's reasonable to say the conversation can't evolve along this more general trajectory.

That said, if someone poses a question, and the first responses are non-sequiturs, then that is inappropriate.

As usual, the real answer is: It depends.

[jkleins]

In the spirit of returning to the OP's "question/comment". Why can't we block the moderators when they are not engaging in moderation activity? It would seem that we should be able to block anyone we don't want to hear from so why single out the moderators for special status. I get that when they are posting about something that has to do with moderating the forum they need to be seen by everyone, but maybe not when they are ranting about anchoring or whatnot.

I don't know the mechanics of how to do it in the software but I would think that the moderators could have a separate account (maybe with the same name followed by (mod) or something) to use when calling out a thread or someone for bad behavior but a regular account to post the usual stuff.
Just a thought to address the concerns of the OP whether you agree with his reasons or not.

Jim

[boatman61]

Why bother, unless calling out/disagreeing with a Moderator fazes one in which case let it pass..
I have no problems disagreeing with a Mods opinion if it counters my experience/knowledge and have enough confidence in the process to feel that if other Mods feel weight is unfairly being thrown around they will let the person know behind the scenes and that'll be it.. no foul called either way.
I have never put anyone on the 'Ignore list' as I feel everyone has an equal right to have their say regardless of status in a thread.. and even if I think they're dickheads I'll still read what they have to say.. even dickheads can be right now and then..