Is Singlehanding >24 Hrs. Morally Wrong?

[scallowayuk]

ive singlehanded 8 atlantic crossings, the only people at risk of a collision are other singlehanders, we accept the risk, but i would say with the increasing use of ais the risk is getting less. is it okay for arc boats to take on inexperienced so called crew and let them keep watch, i know that happens. i would say having been woken up by my ais alarm on numerous occasions that some large container ships only use ais and dont keep a watch having come close to being ran down on numerous occasions i have called them on the radio and either got no answer or after several minutes telling them they are aiming straight at me they then alter course .

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by alley

You won't be cited unless you get caught, and most of the time you don't get caught until after there's been an accident. At that point, your indiscretions (real or perceived) will be used against you to assign liability.

In this case of single-handing irresponsibly, the penalty is the liability if you are found to have caused an accident.

Baylocks.. the only time it may become criminal is if someone is injured or killed.
In my case.. despite rendering my boat un sailable and reversing away while a duvet was draped over the stern to hide the name.. and then trying to sneak into port after dark there was no prosecution.. and insurance was settled 50/50..
There was nearly an assault case but the harbour master and Coastguard officer held me back

[jlcnuke]

Originally Posted by alley

You won't be cited unless you get caught, and most of the time you don't get caught until after there's been an accident. At that point, your indiscretions (real or perceived) will be used against you to assign liability.

In this case of single-handing irresponsibly, the penalty is the liability if you are found to have caused an accident.

That's kind of what I was thinking things were like. It isn't "illegal", but not following the regulations exposes you to liability should there be a problem. Thanks

Oh, and before anyone brings up state laws, I understand that individual jurisdictions can have their own laws making things illegal. I plan to follow the Colregs, but this isn't a subject I've seen covered in any of my courses (the legal application of those regulations that is).

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

I'll bet the stats say that the most dangerous boat on the water is an over weight 45+ year old in a powerboat filled with drunk friends and extra booze....

Actually, a bit younger, but you're on the right track. Search the CG stats for injuries and you'll find that sailboats barely register, and then only for MOB.

A fun thread, but statistically irrelevant.

In 35 years of boating, the only near misses (only close if I had never turned) incidents involved crewed boats that were not keeping watch and the only damage from striking floating but submerged objects (one was an unmarked dredge line that drifted into a channel, the other I believe was a tree, but I never spotted it). Singlehanding was not the problem in the first case (if crewed boats follow the rules there cannot be a collision, can there?) and didn't matter in the latter case (it would have happened just the same, either way).

[Rigdaddy]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Yes. No one has the right to put others at risk. All the justifications and poor analogies you will receive on this thread are no more than excuses. No further explanation required. It is just that simple.

Absurd.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

But you were alert, and how do you know if they were singlehanders?. Fact is a singlehander is not a danger to anyone following COLREGS to the letter so.
Not having navigation lights is totally different matter and far more dangerous..

Indeed! I'm surprised no one mentioned this earlier.

[Dave_S]

Deleted.

Agggghhhhh, tricked by the old more pages in the thread trick.

As you were.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

200 miles offshore from Antofagasto, Chile....... right on the nose at dusk ( hence the dodgy quality of the pic ) .... we didn't alter course before taking this photo....

I don't think they had AIS.... don't think you would pick them up on a 'big ship' guard zone on your radar...

And you are correct... if you don't keep a watch you don't see many ships....

My radar, for all of its other flaws, would pick that up in that sea state at 4 or 5 miles off, and would sound the guard zone alarm at 2 or whatever I had set it. Without fail.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Yes. No one has the right to put others at risk. All the justifications and poor analogies you will receive on this thread are no more than excuses. No further explanation required. It is just that simple.

Well, then never get behind the wheel of your own car.

[scallowayuk]

just a thought, as a 30 year singlehander, over 55 thousand miles singlehanded and no accidents most singlehand boats are smaller than crewed boats therefore slower also because they tend not to sail so hard ie reefing earlier than crewed boats. most long passages are in one direction ie following trade winds so a head on collision is not likely. the col reg 13 that quote, not withstanding anything contained in the rules an overtaking vessel must keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken. this rule overrides all other rules end of quote so if a crewed boat overtaking sailing fast hits a singlehander asleep the crewed boat will be at fault.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

just a thought, as a 30 year singlehander, over 55 thousand miles singlehanded and no accidents most singlehand boats are smaller than crewed boats therefore slower also because they tend not to sail so hard ie reefing earlier than crewed boats. most long passages are in one direction ie following trade winds so a head on collision is not likely. the col reg 13 that quote, not withstanding anything contained in the rules an overtaking vessel must keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken. this rule overrides all other rules end of quote so if a crewed boat overtaking sailing fast hits a singlehander asleep the crewed boat will be at fault.

Except this isn't the way Admirality law is resolved. In most cases a degree of fault is laid on each vessel. No one rule overrides another.

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I beg to differ. I have seen videos of collisions between sub 40' sailboats that resulted in loosing a mast and/or major fiberglass damage. I see a potential for serious injury in the case of a headon or t-bone collision.

hi theres lots on utube mostly crewed yachts racing, how many have you seen with singlehanders after 24 hrs sailing i would say far less if any. i welcome you to prove me wrong

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

How do you know it was solo.. maybe it was like my incident.. four people down below grabbing a bite and a glass of wine..
Methinks maybe your prejudice is colouring your opinions..

I did say reporting a previous incident that I had no idea if the other boat was singelhanded or just all crew below. Thought I said that about this one as well but must have forgotten. So of course, all I could tell is that no one was on watch.

My point was, not having a lookout entails a risk. In the second example it was only 3 miles off a heavily traveled coast. In fact there were at least a dozen other vessels from small sail and power to freighters in sight at the time.

The first one I mentioned I was in the Caribbean and, after checking a map, the nearest land was 100 miles away. Not in a shipping channel or major route to anywhere yet I had a close call with another sailboat. Again, no idea if it was singlehanded or not. So even 100 miles from the nearest island, out of shipping channels there is a greater than zero risk of running into another boat. I can confirm from personal experience.

I the middle of the Atlantic then sure, the odds would be even lower but still not zero.

So my take, is it immoral to solo? I would never use that word. All I can say is that not having someone on continuous watch does add a risk to other boaters.

Whether or not a crewed boat might also cause a collision due to poor watch keeping is irrelevant to the discussion. The question is about solo sailing.

My opinion, responsible solo sailors add an extremely small risk to other boaters and I think that risk is small enough to be acceptable. However, i do resent the attitude of one solo sailor who informed me that it was my responsibility to look out for him since I was on a crewed boat and any collision would be my fault.

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Except this isn't the way Admirality law is resolved. In most cases a degree of fault is laid on each vessel. No one rule overrides another.

with respect read the col regs article 13. overtaking vessels keep clear there are no exceptions. this rule overrides all other rules it cannot be misunderstood. but i would welcome any proof this is not the case. regards.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Yes. No one has the right to put others at risk. All the justifications and poor analogies you will receive on this thread are no more than excuses. No further explanation required. It is just that simple.

"That hysterical laughter you hear" is me.

Most would agree that life itself has risks, so is it fair to conclude that men and women do not have the right to have children? I am stopping here because I want to remain more or less civil.