Is Singlehanding >24 Hrs. Morally Wrong?

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Have been T boned by a yacht with 4 crew on board..

Umm... were you moving at the time? If so, we need to hear a bit more before assuming it was not your fault.

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by Paul L

So the overtaken vessel at night fails to display navigation lights and you think 100% of the blame will be laid on the overtaking vessel? That is not what happens in Admirality courts.

hi paul, who said the overtaken boat was not showing lights or it was at night . it was just a hypeothetical situation. are you replying to my comment about overtaking vessels im confused.

[gamayun]

I'd like to see the statistics (per capita, of course) on the number of accidents bewteen crewed versus solo, offshore and inshore....

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

hi paul, who said the overtaken boat was not showing lights or it was at night . it was just a hypeothetical situation. are you replying to my comment about overtaking vessels im confused.

hi paul apologies .ive just realised what you said, i would agree with you , but ive never not shown lights, im just quoting the col regs im not a lawer just a sailor i welcome other peoples opinions. it would be interesting to hear from someone who has been in this situation, i

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I'd like to see the statistics (per capita, of course) on the number of accidents bewteen crewed versus solo, offshore and inshore....

hi, my guess would be crewed yachts racing, from experience quite a few seem to think the racing rules supersede the col regs.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by cyan

Umm... were you moving at the time? If so, we need to hear a bit more before assuming it was not your fault.

Jeez.. how many times must I tell this tale on here.
I was drifting wing on wing about 1.5 knots against an ebb tide.. he was motor sailing at 6kts everyone down below.. I was heading East parralel to the coast 5 miles to the N.. he was headed N..
The insurance laid the blame 50/50..

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Small boat single handers in boats under - let's say- 40 feet are a danger to no one but themselves.

Big round the world racing boats being singlehanded? ... quite a different matter....

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

hi skipjack, im getting confused, the original post was wether its morally acceptable to singlehand 24 hrs it was questioning rather than justifying no size of boat was mentioned but certainly the bigger the boat the more damage its likely to do. ive sailed solo since 1985, ive dont 8 atlantic crossings 55 thousand miles in small boats, 4 crossings in a 22ft falmouth workboat. do i need to morally justify my actions. i dont think so but others might think i do. life is a risk and i think most people who do long passages accepts that. im old not politically correct and dont do the nanny state, lifes a slight risk. i dont want to die of boredom this an interesting thread and everyones point of view is valid, regards

At the top is the original post I replied to. Clearly el Pinguino (by the way who's opinion I highly respect) is saying that a boat smaller than 40' is not a danger to other boats ergo singlehanding a 40' or smaller boat causes no risk to other boaters. I was responding to this claim by stating that in my opinion, a collision between two 40' boats could possibly result in serious injury to the crew on the boats.

Hope this clarifies the question.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Jeez.. how many times must I tell this tale on here.
I was drifting wing on wing about 1.5 knots against an ebb tide.. he was motor sailing at 6kts everyone down below.. I was heading East parralel to the coast 5 miles to the N.. he was headed N..
The insurance laid the blame 50/50..

Sorry, I think I missed the details a while back. Wasn't trying to pull your lazy sheet.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by cyan

Sorry, I think I missed the details a while back. Wasn't trying to pull your lazy sheet.

I meant on CF..

[Robert Tilbury]

I dont believe its unsafe or moraly wrong , as long as your set up is right , i have AIS , AUTO PILOT , and the most important is a alarm tat will wake me after 15 to 20 mins if i do doze off , but then im usualy a long way off and (try) not to doze if there is trafic as then (as always ) Its a race (LOL) ,

I was a long haul truck driver before my eyes let me down and the hours back in the day were long and hard ,,

I wish we had autopilot in the rigs but then we didnt have microwaves either ,,

We all Keep as safe as we can ,

Rob Loz Trin

[Empty Pockets]

Too long, didn’t read it all, but if it wasn’t already mentioned, the only people really put at risk by single handlers, are other single handlers. So, what are the odds really? And the question of unlit boats, they put us all at risk!

[scallowayuk]

Originally Posted by skipmac

At the top is the original post I replied to. Clearly el Pinguino (by the way who's opinion I highly respect) is saying that a boat smaller than 40' is not a danger to other boats ergo singlehanding a 40' or smaller boat causes no risk to other boaters. I was responding to this claim by stating that in my opinion, a collision between two 40' boats could possibly result in serious injury to the crew on the boats.

Hope this clarifies the question.

hi, i apologise got this completly wrong , i didnt see that comment. i t i agree with you a 38 foot boat hits a 12ft sailing dinghy at 6 knots or my 22footer i might get hurt. regards

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It was suggested today that singlehanding more than 24 hrs is morally wrong.
.............
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There is basis in the Colregs for suggesting that the long term singlehander cannot maintain an effective watch 24/7. No one disputes that. But is it immoral to singlehand because it may place other people at risk?

Let's assume for the moment that it is immoral to single hand for greater than 24 hours due to the lack of maintaining the watch keeping requirements of the Colregs.

It is easy to point the finger at the singlehander because we all have no doubt that sooner or later he / she will fail to keep to meet the watch keeping requirements.

Also note the Coregs require the watch keeper to keep a proper lookout by sight and hearing etc.

I suggest that crewed vessels all fail at some time or another to keep a proper lookout. The only real difference is that we can't be sure when, where or how often crewed vessels fail to meet the watch keeping requirements unlike the single hander who we know that they do fail after 24 hours or so.

Put another way, I suggest all vessels fail the watch keeping requirements at some stages.

If so, then all seafarers are immoral for failing to meet the Colregs as times.

Perhaps the singlehander fails more often but there is no way of knowing for sure and is the degree of failure considered to a degree of immorality.

Or perhaps (and more likely IMO) that initial assumption that a failure to maintain a proper lookout is simply not a moral question.

[knockabout]

most crewed boats in cruising mode are single handed (with a sleeping back up) / most solo racers have a rule no more than 20 minutes sleep there are many ways of setting alarms to make sure you wake every 20 min / non racing large modern boats have radar and ais collision avoidance systems and a number of different ways of self steering / many times during the day on long cruises we have altered course to give plenty of clearance to boats underway with wind self steering system on the helm and no one in sight (there may have been someone on watch through a port light which is common practice) / our own system of continuous sailing sometimes for weeks non stop with 2 pob is 1hour on and 1hour off , after 3 days you become psychotically tuned to what you are doing / if conditions are very mild one or the other on board will usually wind the timer on to extend rest to double or more and is usually rewarded with a hot cooked meal or at least a hot drink // your question was 24 hours most fit healthy people that pace themselves properly wouldn't notice 24 hours non stop especially if sailing was enjoyable / but would need to practice fatigue avoidance - nutrition - hydration - regular watch keeping / especially in behind the great barrier reef that seems to have the ability to move / rule of thumb for cruisers around the reef anchor up well before dusk and don't move until there is good light

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by skipmac

At the top is the original post I replied to. Clearly el Pinguino (by the way who's opinion I highly respect) is saying that a boat smaller than 40' is not a danger to other boats ergo singlehanding a 40' or smaller boat causes no risk to other boaters. I was responding to this claim by stating that in my opinion, a collision between two 40' boats could possibly result in serious injury to the crew on the boats.

Hope this clarifies the question.

I don't think I actually said that....

I think that the risk of meeting a crossing or end on yacht is slight indeed on most ocean waters. Your incident does indeed show that the risk is not quite zero.... you came close to winning the lottery...

Your case sounds like a pair of yachts on opposite beam reaches between two ports fairly ( a few hundred miles? ) apart ...

In some parts not so much risk from other yachts....

That gaggle at 52*S is the Volvo fleet... one of them has already managed to hit a reef and sink a fishing boat ..... they are the people that scare me..... full crew or singlehanded.

I think views on this subject are influenced rather a lot by one's area of operations.... and their interpretation of the OP.