Is there opportunity here?

[ValiantV]

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/october/affairs.asp

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/october/affairs.asp


Two articles from BoatUS regarding derelect boats.

It's a bigger problem than I realized - though just seeing the number of derelect or near-derelect boats in my area has been eye-opening in a depressing way.

Another reason for putting some thought to finding opportunity in this situation is that the eventual alternative is higher taxes, fees, and more government oversight of our recreational sailing activities.

Something that was particularly surprising is that some of these vessels - including many of the bigger ones - are "former military". I would think finding who they were sold to should be dead easy. If not, it should be the military's burden to clean up after themselves rather than allow a government agency to add to the cost and effort of civil authorities.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by ValiantV

Hi all,

Seems most of the marinas I visit have a good number of very neglected boats. Some are all but abandoned - and some are actually abandoned.

The picture attached is of a boat that sunk quite awhile ago (hey, the mast is still standing) and another one just sunk a few weeks ago.

Seems the owners just abandon the boats and eventually, many if them sink. The marina owner really isn't doing much more than collecting a check every quarter, and apparently, not even doing that very well. (The marina is for sale BTW) I asked him about the sunk boat, and after a bunch if back story, said that he'd have to call a guy in with a crane to pull the boat out, a backhoe to crush the boat and a roll-off to load the pieces into. Apparently, he wait til he has three derelect boats to make it economical.

Long story not short enough - is this an opportunity disquised as derelect boats? Could some energetic, enterprising, upbeat guy (heck no, not me!) Make a profit out of derelect, abandoned boats? I would think there HAS to be money in this somehow.

Thoughts?

ValAttachment 152636

My guess would be, the pitfall would be getting clear title? The pockets needed for that might have to be deeper than the profit.

[ValiantV]

Originally Posted by Cadence

My guess would be, the pitfall would be getting clear title? The pockets needed for that might have to be deeper than the profit.

Fair point.

My wild ass guess would be that with a little minor sleuthing, the owner could be found and would likely be willing to sign the boat over to you to get it from under​ any liability. A little "convincing" that if the authorities were brought in, removal and remediation costs could be significant and civil charges may even apply.

If the owner couldn't be found (which would take some effort on their part to cover their tracks) then there is likely a process not much more difficult than filling out the right forms to claim "abandoned property". Considering that having a private party do the cleanup and save the government the cost and work of doing it - I think you'd get cooperation.

If the marina is on private property, certainly the owner if the marina has some recourse to "evict" a non-paying tenant and likely claim any property he abandons.

Some states claim the right to "hold" property so that the rightful owner can be found and claim it. In that case, invite the state to come and get such property.

[Mithril Bham]

Have done this a few times. Lost my ass every time. Slow learner. Find boat in good condition where owner is underwater. Money to be made there.

[robwilk37]

clear title is definitely a major problem. 5 years ago when i was actively hunting for a derelict to rebuild - and they were EVERYWHERE - fully 11 deals fell through at the last minute because i couldnt get the a clear title. often the boat was abandoned after a death or bankruptcy. next of kin cant be found or dont want to get involved, or a bunch of tradesmen/marinas are owed back pay. state registered boats, at least in CA, are a bit easier to resolve. but CG documented? enough red tape to choke a goat.

[tarditi]

Originally Posted by magellanyachts

Have done this a few times. Lost my ass every time. Slow learner. Find boat in good condition where owner is underwater. Money to be made there.

Reminds me of a mantra on a forum specializing in German cars where the engine is (properly) in the back: "buy the newest one you can, in the best condition you can afford"

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by magellanyachts

Have done this a few times. Lost my ass every time. Slow learner. Find boat in good condition where owner is underwater. Money to be made there.

I love the pun on underwater. Much more likely than a boat under water for profit.

[hellosailor]

"WAG...evict..."
Nope. Legal will vary with your venue, but generally in the US the only thing the marina can do is file a "warehouseman's lien" seeking title so they can sell the item to recover the costs of "warehousing" it.
Not worth their time and effort, since after all the paperwork it still can't be sold for a profit. And they can't even GIVE it away, because they don't have title to it. If they knew someone besides the owner was trying to take it, the owner could sue them for allowing that theft. So, catch-22.
This is an old topic.
Once a boat has gone derelict, not knowing why, you can anticipate rotted bulkheads, rotted deck, engine and electrics needing major investment...All great if you want a project and your time has no value. But the phrase "not economically feasible" applies.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by tarditi

Living near Philly, we see the derelict US United States, a historic ship, rotting in the harbor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_United_States

I recently saw a story that she had been bought to be rehabbed and returned to service. But the be seen that before. Let's hope this one sticks.

Then again there is the Olympia, Becuna, Moshulu.

[hpeer]

The answers point to why you need the community.

The boating community does not want the bad name or the derelicts plugging up good anchorages.
The marina owners don't want the risk of a costly derilict.
The homeowners don't want the eyesore.
The environmentals don't want the damage.

They ALL need the local government to step up to the plate to make it possible to do the right thing. The government needs to pay for the disposal, collecting where they can. The government is the only one who can step in and handl a bad situation before it gets to be a damn costly situation. The government then needs to find equitable ways to spread the cost.

Yes it would be nice if the boating community alone could handle this. But there are far too many legalities that need to be cleared out.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"WAG...evict..."
Nope. Legal will vary with your venue, but generally in the US the only thing the marina can do is file a "warehouseman's lien" seeking title so they can sell the item to recover the costs of "warehousing" it.
Not worth their time and effort, since after all the paperwork it still can't be sold for a profit. And they can't even GIVE it away, because they don't have title to it. If they knew someone besides the owner was trying to take it, the owner could sue them for allowing that theft. So, catch-22.
This is an old topic.
Once a boat has gone derelict, not knowing why, you can anticipate rotted bulkheads, rotted deck, engine and electrics needing major investment...All great if you want a project and your time has no value. But the phrase "not economically feasible" applies.

[SouthernPride]

Artificial reefs are a fantastic way to increase fish stocks.
If you can approval to create an artificial reef you could charge owners to strip thr boats, fill them with concrete and add to the reef.

The owners could write off the boat taxwize, you increase fish stocks, fisherman come, etc...

[mocha]

As someone who had also done this a few times, and made money,
the image you posted would make me run!

Couple of quick issues, in Florida, there are MANY, OLDER sailors, who are done sailing, too old, too sick, too weak, whatever, these are generally worth looking in to. Generally well equipped, well taken care of, take it all type deals -- these can be GREAT finds, on GREAT boats-

the other issue you need to be aware of is, in Florida, the image you posted would then be changed from a "Clean" Title, to a "Salvage" Title,
attempting to Re-Sell a Salvage titled vessel, not so easy --

YES there are opportunities, just have to be prudent, and weigh the downside, as the upside may not meet your expectation!

Cheers and Best
MOCHA

[atlantical]

I did work on a boat in Bermuda that had sunk, then been salvaged. The person I did the work for, had bought it, because he couldn't afford to buy a decent one. It was false economy, he had to replace everything, and he was struggling to afford it all, then he had to pay me to put on the parts on, I felt sorry for him, he was just a taxi driver, and he just wanted to go fishing on it. I worked very cheap for him, but it was breaking him. I had to fix parts that should have been replaced, because he just couldn't afford it, everything on that boat was affected by the sinking, only thing that was good, was the hull. Even then, you didn't know how much water, had seeped into that hull. Might have been none, but the whole hull could have been full of water.

I left Bermuda, and he was still a long way from using it, then I heard he lost it in a hurricane, while it was on a mooring, and he still hadn't been fishing on it.

When I got my own boat back to the UK from the USA, best thing I could have done was dump it, but I started spending money, and its gone on and on and on, if I had sunk it, and saved the money, I could have bought a ready to go boat. It the way it is, you buy a second hand boat, costs 10,000 if you were to buy the hull, and all the components, it would cost 40,000 its the same with a car, you could buy a new one, break it into its component parts, then sell them, you would make twice what you paid for the car, but could you manage to sell them, when it came down to valves, door lock, wheel bolts, pedal rubbers, door handles, etc.

[Comix Bay]

Originally Posted by ValiantV

Guess I was thinking something more upbeat and earth-friendly than filling a hole in the ground with a bunch of broken fiberglass bits.

Maybe the question I should have asked is "Can this boat be saved?"

With enough money any hull can be saved, just takes a lot of $$$$