It May be Legal. Or is it?

[Lake-Effect]

If the boat had gone back into charter after repairs, and before putting it up for sale, then it's legitimately an out of charter boat. Having finally done a charter in 2019, I'm pretty certain that ALL charter boats need and get gelcoat repairs at some point.

Is there not a registry where one can check whether a boat was written off by insurance and sold as salvage, then later repaired?

[trifan]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Chotu. Thanks for your advise. I tend to agree with you but I don't agree it is negative energy to try to help the hundreds of unsuspecting "suckers" who are being tricked by unscrupulous companies. Buy a new boat and the selling company doesn't back up warranty work. Your told to just such it up and fix it yourself. Life is to short to spend all your energy to force a boat sales company to honor their commitments. Hello. I don't accept that type of thinking. The boat industry is filled with shoddy service providers who cheat and steal as a matter of daily business. Now we have a huge consumer scandal of wrecked and damaged boats being dressed up and sold to unsuspecting buyers under false pretences. Don't accept that this should be ignored. This is a scandal. So when you see something that is wrong. Is it your policy to not get involved. Sit on your porch and have a beer. Just move along and don't worry about all the other people being hurt by these sheitzters. Not my style. Sorry. By the way. It's not a vendetta. It's being socially responsible.

Not to go too far off topic BUT ... Too many people have said, "There ought to be a law ..." without considering all the unintended consequences of said legislation. One cannot legislate common sense; ask American Indians how relying on the government worked out for them. No, I agree totally with those who advise do your due diligence, follow your gut and realize all a seller wants is to get rid of their whatever. They don't want it, it's up to you to figure out why... or at least if it's worth their price. Move on, leave the gov't out of it. They have enough mucked up as it is.

[waterman46]

I appreciated the OP's information and don't think it went to the point of being "vengeful". It was a needed wake-up call to all boat buyers in the wake of the hurricanes.
And congrats on her full recovery - amazing determination.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Thanks flyingfin. Your advise is sound. I would love to see one of the Federal agencies charged with protecting consumers take a look into this. Perhaps it's time for me to speak to my local Senator and or Gongressman. I doubt that the State of Florida would look into unfair and deceptive practices in the boating industry due to large economic impact the industry has in the state. You are so right about the buyer beware. Thanks.

As I recall, you might do better with a Congressman. In theory the Senate represents the State and Congress the people. But the voting booth is where the rubber meets the road. Unfortunately in the US we live in an oligarchy without term limits.

[Shrew]

If you don't want to get taken, then stop looking at large and amazingly discounted catamarans from charter fleets in areas which have recently been hit with successive, massive hurricanes.

[jen1722terry]

Hello and glad to hear of your successful recovery.

Just an idea: have you thought about contacting or even joining owners groups for particular models of boats you like. These groups include members with a weath of knowledge about the brand of yachts they sail. The Catalina owners group may be the largest, but we're sure there are groups for most popular boat models, including cats.

Owners group members often can tell you about particular boats, who owned them and if there were any serious incidents with the boat, like big storms. The groups can also tell you about specific problems/benefits of the boats. They also generally include members who are amazingly competent with repairs and maintenance. Mos groups have forums just like this one.

We've been members of the Cape Dory group for many years. We don't think there is a problem with the boats that another member hasn't already encountered, and solved.

Anyhow, glad you're getting out on the water again.

[tomrealest]

This is where you file a complaint.

the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation.

I would call the owner of the company and here him out about what you are saying. He might be rat or have a wolf in his hen house. As a business owner, I always wanted to know. My experience helped me find the truth which is what I wanted to know. Sometimes the consumer is right and sometimes they are not.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Hurricane Sandy and the Used Boat Market

Lovely, informative article, boatpoker, with beaut pix to show examples of what is meant by the text.

Thank you.

Ann
JPA Cate

[Saleen411]

[QUOTE=LittleWing77;3338834]+1 for Chotu!

And no "we" do not have a huge consumer scandal. Only you do. Unfortunately, the more you post, the more you reveal how little you know about boats and sailing.

Rude and uncalled for.

Please start off by taking a sailing lesson, AT LEAST. Nowhere in your looong, whinging thread do you say that you have done anything other than watch YouTube videos.

Why are you attacking her? Do you actually KNOW what her sailing experience is?...No you do not. You are making ASS-UMPTIONS and your snarky comments are inappropriate.

REAL sailing has nothing to do with YouTube videos. Get out there and LEARN HOW TO SAIL before buying a waaay too big hurricane damaged bloody catamaran...!

Again with the condescending and patronizing comments. Thank goodness there are people out there that may actually help and support her in achieving her dreams. You obviously are not one of them.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tomrealest

This is where you file a complaint.

the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation.

I would call the owner of the company and here him out about what you are saying. He might be rat or have a wolf in his hen house. As a business owner, I always wanted to know. My experience helped me find the truth which is what I wanted to know. Sometimes the consumer is right and sometimes they are not.

How exactly would the complaint read....

I never asked about hurricane damage and I have no evidence that the repairs were done incorrectly plus it appears he tried to be up front by providing an insurance document covering said hurricane damage/repairs but it got lost in the email. As soon as I asked about it, he acknowledged the hurricane damage and was wiling to resend the insurance documents. He was also open to my having an independent surveyor review the condition of the vessel.

This broker is so horrible, he should be driven out of the industry.

[billgewater]

Naming the company seems to be "food for thought".
One would assume that you use a broker to save you the worry of the physical chasing around and inspecting of the product they are flogging. i.e. they should be a source of reliable information not just sales puffery.

It may be dependent on the fine print in their own documentation. i.e. they may claim that they are not beholden to any information provided/or not, by the seller and the purchaser agrees to that condition.

Even so, if in this case, the original respondent, told her close circle of friends about the incident, it is not as though she would be saying anything untrue about the broker. If that information hits the web or elsewhere, she can hardly be held responsible.
" I purchased/did not purchase the boat through broker Dodgy Brothers, only to later discover it was it had serious delamination." A true statement, whereby she does not actually blame Dodgy Brothers for the fault but anyone reading the statement could draw their own conclusion. i.e naming the company but not directly blaming them for the major fault.
From my reading of her interaction with the broker, they did not tell her any "fibs". They just withheld important information.
What if she stated " I was interested in purchasing a boat through Dodgy Brothers and when asked about its history regarding any cyclone damage, they were unable to advise."?

I am not legally qualified to pass any comment but if she purchased the boat, then discovered the problem and went to court, I suspect the judgement would hang around the fine details of her interaction with the broker.

In does seem to make sense that a condition of purchase is that an independent survey is carried out. i.e. the legal consequences are shifted from the broker to the surveyor.
Just between us all, who would you put greater faith in: - an independent surveyor or a broker?

Yep. Caveat emptor.

[Madehn]

i think i land with chotu on this one---buying a boat is a learning process- you just learned a few things--- be thankful and move on i think of each person involved in this type of thing in terms of their "role" - a sellers broker is there in role to represent and do their best for the SELLER- they are not there to be fair or the buyers friend- a buyers broker or a surveyor hired by the buyer in their "role" are there to do their best for the BUYER. - the system works pretty well as it stands-- disreputable and immoral people tend not to last long in the business and one thing IMHO that we do not need is yet another law or govt agency involved in yet another facet of our lives - i for one would prefer the govt do a few things really really well and leave the rest to each of us. just one persons opinion and of course if everybody liked the same thing or felt the same way one part of the world would be awfully crowded.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

+1 for Chotu!



And no "we" do not have a huge consumer scandal. Only you do. Unfortunately, the more you post, the more you reveal how little you know about boats and sailing.

Please start off by taking a sailing lesson, AT LEAST. Nowhere in your looong, whinging thread do you say that you have done anything other than watch YouTube videos.

REAL sailing has nothing to do with YouTube videos. Get out there and LEARN HOW TO SAIL before buying a waaay too big hurricane damaged bloody catamaran...!

You know what they say about a person who assumes things. I have been sailing since a teenager.

[Midwesterner]

Originally Posted by EarlWer

These guys are upfront about their work. They document most of the work and I find it very interesting. They currently have 2 cats that they are renovating to sell.

They have a 3rd cat in Panama that needs structural repairs... which is why they are fixing these...

I didn't know they had three boats. I have watched most of their videos. I know they bought the one hurricane damaged cat, Parlay, and practically had to re-core both hulls to recover it. Most recently I have seen that they had extensive structural damage that caused their mast to tilt.

They took off to go sailing in the one boat. How have they had time to work on two others?

[GoingWalkabout]

Thank you so much Wolfgang. I feel so lucky to have faught back and won. Fair winds to you.

Originally Posted by wolfgal

WELCOME BACK, girl!!!!

i remember you from 2015, noticed that you had slipped away, have wondered about you. and i'm so happy to hear that you fought off ill-health and have gotten your endurance back up so much!!!! AMAZING!!!! yes, lately i've lost a few friends to ill-health (cancer, stroke) too, and it really hits home how important it is to make dreams come true, while we can. i admire you!!!!!

anyway, on topic: one thing i've noted over my years of boat searching: very often the brokers have NOT seen the boat themselves. the pictures listed are often provided by the owner and are not always time stamped.

so, as you can easily imagine, the broker really has no clue as to the real condition of the boat. and well, this is an easy case for
no knowledge = no moral responsibility.

and here's trap not to fall in: a broker had the audacity to ask me (that person who paid airfare and a hotel and inspected the boat from bow to stern and found all kinds of problems) to send my own photographs and inspection notes about the boat afterwards.

hot stove, once! since then, i insist to know if the broker has viewed the boat himself/herself and WHEN. and i ask for very recent photographs. if he/she cannot provide, then i move on.

as for your experience, it does appear to be another example of how we live in an anything-for-a-buck world.

it is a very good thing you noted the cracks in the photos (before making the trip to the boat) and thought to ask about hurricane damage. i'm certainly glad you did!

good luck in your boat search, girl! you are an inspiration!



wolfgal