It May be Legal. Or is it?

[GoingWalkabout]

Hi Redneckrob. I understand where you are coming from. It isn't my style to use public forums to trash people or companies. Perhaps an enquiry from an agency will motivate them to change their ways. I hope. Public shaming for me would be the last resort. Thanks.

Originally Posted by redneckrob

The one thing you could do to help others from facing a similar situation that would require no more than a minute of your time and almost no energy would be to name the company you were dealing with. And maybe provide the specific listing as well.

It baffles me why someone would go through some level of awkwardness, for example typing "a very large charter company broker" instead of "XYZ Yacht Charters" to protect a company they're about to sic the feds on. If you really feel strongly, name the company. If you don't, it indicates that despite your assertions you still seem to want to maintain a relationship between your online handle @Goingwalkabout and this company, which is incongruous at best.

[GoingWalkabout]

I find it wise to get through to a staff member first. Or use your social networks to set up an introduction. Like the saying goes. It's not what you know but who you know.

Originally Posted by bill352

Not to discourage participation in the democratic process, but I just spoke to my local (state) Congressman on a different issue, and here is his reply:


"Thank you for taking the time to send your thoughts and concerns regarding an important issue. I certainly value input from my constituents and I will keep your comments in mind as I move towards this upcoming Legislative Session."

[GoingWalkabout]

Thanks. I will follow this line first. And just people don't wrongly assume I am being vindictive. I feel that other boaters need to be protected. All the best.

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Actually, Florida is probably one of the few states where the legislature can do something about it. Brokers in Florida are required to have a license. I think I once heard that California also licenses brokers, but I'm not sure about that. In any case, Florida is either the only one, or one of only two states that require brokers to be licensed.

Hence, there is at least a state agency that already sets standards and oversees broker activities. In other states, anybody who wants to can call themselves a broker, and there is no state agency to regulate their activity.

If this was a Florida-licensed broker who you talked to, then you should contact the the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes, which is within the Department of Business and Professional Regulation. They would be the ones to handle a complaint against a licensee.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Put all this past stuff out of your mind. I’ve built in almost every material. Find an aluminum yacht. Find someone who is certified for vessel inspection by USCG and has good references...or go to the Netherlands and have it built for you.
You get what you pay for.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark and his “Drink beer, flatten can, TIG weld boat...repeat.”manatee crew of professional boatbuilders.

[GoingWalkabout]

Thank you for your excellent post.

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

So if a bank robbery is foiled and the money is not stolen then it’s just: “ Better luck next time, see ya!”?

If a government leader attempts to overthrow the government but fails then it’s No harm, No foul?

A broker attempted to fraudulently sell you a hurricane boat, but since you found out, it’s all OK?

It may be negative energy, but don’t we have a greater responsibility to the community of boaters to self-police? Turning and looking away from bad behavior that can harm our fellow boaters because of bad vibes is simply selfish self-centered behavior that shows a distinct lack of good citizenship and care for ones fellow citizens.

[GoingWalkabout]

Thanks. I think I will be looking for non Caribbean boats. Having said that I have just learned that some of these hurricane damaged boats have been sent to other ports in the med. Fair winds and thanks.

Originally Posted by Paul Kelly

Well done on getting back to fitness from some horrible sounding depths, so you can go sailing.

I think your post has answered your questions. There are plenty of boats on the market. Take a bit more time, frustrating though that may be, and find one with a clear history and an honest seller.

Walk away Renee.

[GoingWalkabout]

Good question. My cat needs her own berth. Jocking. I think the higher bridge deck space in the larger boat will help minimize the proverbial slapping. The extra length will minimize the hobby horse rocking that is more pronounced with smaller cats. I would not discount buying a good 45 but the extra few feet provides for a lot more sailing comfort. As for handling. All electric winches take care of that issue. I've handled power boats single handed of this size with no issue. Thanks for your comment.

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Just wondering why you want or need an almost 50 foot cat ? That is a lot of boat ! 38-40 foot would be plenty unless you have a big crew. And they will go most anywhere.

[GoingWalkabout]

Thanks waterman. Very kind of you to say.

Originally Posted by waterman46

I appreciated the OP's information and don't think it went to the point of being "vengeful". It was a needed wake-up call to all boat buyers in the wake of the hurricanes.
And congrats on her full recovery - amazing determination.

[EarlWer]

Originally Posted by Midwesterner

Most recently I have seen that they had extensive structural damage that caused their mast to tilt.

They took off to go sailing in the one boat. How have they had time to work on two others?

The 1st cat with the structural damage was left on the east side of Panama.
Colin? left for a job and was unable to get back to Panama...

Meanwhile, some friends in the Bahamas bought 2 damaged cats and enlisted/partnered? Colin to help fix them. The plan was to transport them to Florida, fix both and sail to Panama to fix other, then sell the 2 latest ones... very complicated...

If I had the $$, I would ask Colin to put me on the possible buyers list... but they are way above my budget. I don't think the wife would be happy if I sold the house to go cruising ;-)

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Just wondering why you want or need an almost 50 foot cat ? That is a lot of boat ! 38-40 foot would be plenty unless you have a big crew. And they will go most anywhere.

Kind of beside the point

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by EarlWer

The 1st cat with the structural damage was left on the east side of Panama.
Colin? left for a job and was unable to get back to Panama...

Meanwhile, some friends in the Bahamas bought 2 damaged cats and enlisted/partnered? Colin to help fix them. The plan was to transport them to Florida, fix both and sail to Panama to fix other, then sell the 2 latest ones... very complicated...

If I had the $$, I would ask Colin to put me on the possible buyers list... but they are way above my budget. I don't think the wife would be happy if I sold the house to go cruising ;-)

When you say it was left on the east side of Panama, do you mean it was abandoned? I hope not!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by billgewater

One would assume that you use a broker to save you the worry of the physical chasing around and inspecting of the product they are flogging. i.e. they should be a source of reliable information not just sales puffery.

The OP did not indicate that she had enlisted a "buyers broker". That would create a fiduciary responsibility to vet (within reason) potential boats.

Assuming the more likely "seller broker" situation, there is no such responsibility to the buyer. They aren't allowed to lie but so far there is no evidence that the broker lied. As soon as the OP asked about hurricane damage, the broker admitted it. Based on the information presented, the broker tried to notify the OP about the hurricane damage but a technical glitch caused it to be lost

People can speculate if the insurance document was really lost in the transfer (and I'm not saying it was or wasn't) but without proof to the contrary, the legal system would be obliged to give the broker the benefit of the doubt. If the OP were to publicly claim the broker purposely hid the information, she would be open to charges of slander (though it's unlikely it would be worth pursuing by the broker).

Depending on the tone and other subtle clues, I might choose not to do business with the broker if I believed they lied but from the original thread title "it may be legal." I see no illegal activity proven.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Kind of beside the point

She said good question and thanked me, that’s good enough for me. I wish her nothing but success.

[bill352]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

If this was a Florida-licensed broker who you talked to, then you should contact the the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes, which is within the Department of Business and Professional Regulation. They would be the ones to handle a complaint against a licensee.

Yes, this is certainly a good start, and may supply you with a useful official record of your complaint if things go further. However, you should be aware that, about ten years ago, the Florida legislature stripped the DBPR of much of its regulatory power. Even if your complaint involves a clear violation of written law, they may not be able to do anything about it.


Just for instance, we filed a complaint with them a few years ago involving multiple violations. Most of them were dismissed with "Yes, that's a violation. There's nothing we can do." We actually won one of them. Their response? A letter to the guilty parties saying, "Tsk, tsk, naughty, naughty. You have to promise not to do it again for at least two years."


I don't want to discourage proper use of official channels, but it's good to know what to expect before you commit to all that paperwork.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Life threw me some twists and turns that had me postpone my seafaring adventures. Bed riden for nearly a year with prospects of having to live off an oxygen tank for the few incapacitated years ahead. I wasn't ready to go out that way. All through my harrowing illness with the grim prognosis, I kept watching my favorite sailing YouTube channels. They gave me that spark of motivation that stopped me from falling into the acceptance of what my doctors told me. The spark that grew into a flame of absolute determination to overcome all the odds and come hell or high water to get myself back to health so that I could follow my dream. The dream of never ending sunrises across deep blue ocean waters.

Here I am. A number of years later and having succeeded in fighting my way back to full strength. For physical therapy, the last three years I have been snow skiing every day of the season. Pushing myself to my limits. I can't believe that I am now doing slalom runs hitting between 50 to 60 miles an hour. My physical endurance is now so good that I can ski from 9am to 4am with only a short break for lunch.

So here I am. Ready and more than able to pursue my ocean going dream. Thank heavens.

Last week I received an email from a very large charter company broker. Offering me a deal on a 48 foot cat. We discussed on the phone the details of the boat. He sent me pics. Told me that the sale didn't go through and it was just back on the market.

Here is the kicker. I noticed in what the broker sent me that the gel coat had some minor cracks. My internal antenna went up. After a week of back and forth I sent him an email asking if the boat had ever been damaged during a hurricane. Up until this point he had presented the boat as coming out of the charter program.

He was put on the spot. So he answered by not denying it had been damaged but it was all explained in the supposed insurance document he said he sent me which I never received.

I called him and for the first time he admitted it was indeed damaged in a hurricane. The first issue I have that in his pretty pictures of the boat and emails to me he didn't tell me up front about its hurricane damage history. I was lead to believe it was just coming out of the normal charter program.

Second, since it has been repaired by the charter company, there is no way of independently know or verifying what and where any damage was done to the boat.

This presents a huge problem for any prospective second boat owner. What kind of damage did she actually have. Penetration of the hull. Or perhaps cracks that allowed water seepage into the boats core. Here is the big problem for me. If the new gelcoat was applied to cover up cracks without a tear back to the core to visually inspect the core the boat could have serious structural issues. Issues that could in fact compromise the safety of the vessel itself.

I'm looking at taking a boat across oceans. I will not buy a boat that has any doubts about its structural integrity. In my thinking I would prefer to deal with a boat that has all of its cracks and whatever visible. So that I could strip it back to the core in the damaged areas and if needed even replace water damaged core. I think that having undocumented gel coat repairs on a vessel is like putting lipstick on a pig.

So after my long winded post here us the punchline. We have a very large boat brokerage representing falsely a boat as coming off charter without disclosing up front that it is a hurricane damaged boat. To compound matters, no before repairs pictures have been made available.

This is very deceptive behavior. It casts a serious cloud over any vessel being offered "out of the charter fleet " by this charter company and its brokers.

In my simple thinking who now knows what boats out there have just had filler and new gel coat slapped on to sell to the unsuspecting public.

How many cats out there that are really pigs dressed up with lipstick? Do sales by USA brokers have to adhere to Federal deceptive practices laws? Is my experience only the tip of the iceberg of unscrupulous business tactics being used to offload millions of dollars worth of boats to unsuspecting owners?

I would seriously like to hear from others their thoughts on this. Thanks.

it's buyer be ware. Your post might alert others but other than that it's thank you.