Marinas Bite the Big One

[AKA-None]

I’m in a family owned marina and yes the costs keep going up but the owners are putting the money into improvements

The price increase sucks but they are fixing and improving every year

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I.

Just looking around, the marina is 2/3's empty. I can remember the days when every slip had a boat.

From my perspective, the bottom has dropped out of the boat market. Marine gas (non-ethanol) is approaching $5/gal...

I used to see sailboats chugging up the ICW at all times of the year...these days....it's rare to see one.....

It's not looking good....certainly not for the boater....as a business....I don't see the rational behind it....

Where are you located? I own a condo with a slip on the ICW near St Pete FL. Marinas a full, ICW is crowded with boat traffic, though sailboats are the distinct minority (not great sailing due to skinny water, narrow channels, and bridges).

I lived in a marina 25-years ago that went corporate. It sucked, but nothing new. But you wanna know the real tragedy? Same thing is happening with mobile home parks where investers are buying up the parks and raising rates. Despite the name, mobile homes aren't exactly mobile. As a hedge/defense, mobile home park residents are buying their own parks so they are owner-operated.

Rather than complain, feel free to cough up the money and buy your marina. You can run it as a non-profit if you'd like to keep that old time vibe.

Peter

[MicHughV]

not complaining...just explaining...

it's not possible to lump every marina under one umbrella..

I can remember some years back, when some bright spark in guv'mint thought putting a "luxury tax" on boats would be a grand idea....almost overnight the boating market crashed....

I see the same thing happening today with marina's, there is a price point, where people simply say enuff is enuff.

Many popular anchorages are now " mooring fields"....a daily $$$ charge for the privileged...

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by redsky49

Over the past ten or 15 years, venture groups and holding companies have been buying up many, if not most, of the better marinas across the US.

There are 12,000 marinas in this country. You list two as proof of your claim. Give us a break.

[MicHughV]

Windward Marine Group has bought eight marina's in my neck of the woods..

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

There are 12,000 marinas in this country. You list two as proof of your claim. Give us a break.

Safe Harbor has acquired more than 100 marinas and is constantly on the prowl for more using venture capital, according to its own web site. Recently, it made an unsuccessful bid for the St. Petersburg city marina.


That enough for you?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

That enough for you?

You miss the point. Just because a marina is bought up by a corporation doesn't mean the marina goes to hell. In fact, the two marinas local to me that were recently bought by Safe Harbor have not only kept their management and maintenance staff intact, the company has dumped money into much needed improvements. Those marinas are better places to keep a boat than they were before Safe Harbor acquired them.

The OP's (and your) point that corporate ownership of marinas is necessarily a bad thing is simply untrue.

[CCCruiser]

Originally Posted by redsky49

Well, there is no other way to put it. Marinas are on a disturbing spiral and I see no end in sight.

Over the past ten or 15 years, venture groups and holding companies have been buying up many, if not most, of the better marinas across the US. These companies are versed in acquisitions and marketing, hospitality and investment. These are not owner operated or family run.

The result of this trend - higher prices and less service. Long-time experienced staff are dismissed, and corporate, "team" members are brought in.

My favorite and long-time home base marina in the Chesapeake (starts with a Z) had precisely this happen a few years ago. Result:
GM fired
Service Mgr. fired
Experienced service technicians fired or left of own accord.

And slip fees jumped. Service declined.

Just happened again here in Florida. Big financial Corp buys marina I am currently at, raises slip fees 41%; changes billing so that you pay up front, and not in arrears; eliminates amenities, etc..

So there is no longer a local owner, but a corporate raider comprised of CEO, COO, CFO CMO, CTO, plus enough VPs to choke a horse.
And we still don't have internet that was promised to be fixed three years ago.

I understand that boaters are looked at as cash cows, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of us are retirees, living on fixed incomes. Getting hit with a $237 monthly slip fee increase, with 30 days notice isn't a happy thing.

I have seen others over the years complain about costs associated with boating. Seems most comments are "if you don't like it, leave."

Well, I don't like and I will leave, but to where?
Industry consolidation (elimination of competitors and creation of monopolies) is not in the public's best interest. Remember when there were more than just West Marine for boating supplies?

A handful of large companies are taking control over the marinas, docks and boatyards. This will not end well.

I am familiar with this marina having stayed there many times over decades of
the family ownership. The 2nd generation cashed out. I knew one of the individuals you mentioned who worked their starting in his high school years. The obvious reasons for dismissal is to lower costs independent of skills. I've had some serious work done at the facility but will no longer use it.

[MicHughV]

My experience is similar. Previous marina owner hosted monthly "marina parties" for marina guests and friends...definitely a family vibe to the place....new Management....nothing...it's all business.

True, they are pumping some money into the marina....new docks, etc, but to date, there is little to show for it. Whether this is just market timing, Covid, high gas prices, etc, I could not say.

Their target boat owner appears to be the well heeled one's. Mom and Pop boaters appear to have been pushed to one side.

I don't see this as a winning or lasting approach.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

The OP's (and your) point that corporate ownership of marinas is necessarily a bad thing is simply untrue.

Well, you know boat bottoms. I know investing and businesses.


What's forming in the marina business is what's called an oligopoly. That's when a small number of companies are able to dominate an industry and set artificially high prices.


That's why venture capital firms are eager to invest in businesses such as Safe Harbor. They see outsized profits as the marina businesses gain more and more market share.


In St. Petersburg, Safe Harbor already owns nearby Harborage Marina. Taking over the city marina would have given it control of a majority of boat slips in the downtown area.


You really think Safe Harbor would keep slip rates reasonable so the locals and cruisers can enjoy sailing? If so, I have a bridge near you to sell you. Sailors would have to suck up the high rates so wealthy investors can get even richer.



IGY Marinas took over the Maximo marina on Boca Ciega Bay. Sure, it invested money and improved things. It also evicted all boats under 40 feet, doubled the slip fees and kicked out liveaboards who had been there for years.


It's changing the character of boating. If you're someone with 20 or 50 million in investments, it's not a concern. If you're a middle class person, it may keep you from getting out on the water.



There's a longer economic explanation for why this type of thing is happening, but that's straying way off this thread.

[MultiCountryDon]

Some of these prices seem really CHEAP!
In Thailand I paid $7,020.USD per year for a 37 Ft sailboat +++. That was 2021.
In Southern Cal in 2010 I paid $9400. per year for a 42 ft boat++++
I bought my house in SW Florida in 2011. Offer last week was for 292% of what I paid for it. Sounds like the OP has a reasonable to great deal.

Don

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Well, you know boat bottoms. I know investing and businesses.


What's forming in the marina business is what's called an oligopoly. That's when a small number of companies are able to dominate an industry and set artificially high prices.


That's why venture capital firms are eager to invest in businesses such as Safe Harbor. They see outsized profits as the marina businesses gain more and more market share.


In St. Petersburg, Safe Harbor already owns nearby Harborage Marina. Taking over the city marina would have given it control of a majority of boat slips in the downtown area.


You really think Safe Harbor would keep slip rates reasonable so the locals and cruisers can enjoy sailing? If so, I have a bridge near you to sell you. Sailors would have to suck up the high rates so wealthy investors can get even richer.



IGY Marinas took over the Maximo marina on Boca Ciega Bay. Sure, it invested money and improved things. It also evicted all boats under 40 feet, doubled the slip fees and kicked out liveaboards who had been there for years.


It's changing the character of boating. If you're someone with 20 or 50 million in investments, it's not a concern. If you're a middle class person, it may keep you from getting out on the water.



There's a longer economic explanation for why this type of thing is happening, but that's straying way off this thread.

You don't have a clue what I know about investing and business. But I guarantee that I spend more time in more marinas than you do. But here's the point- nobody is arguing that corporations aren't buying up marinas. If you think that's what I've been saying here then maybe reading comprehension is also not your strong suit.

Is the mom & pop marina a dinosaur? Maybe. But that's life in the big city. It's called capitalism. Owners age and their heirs are left sitting on extremely valuable property. And while I won't pretend to have first hand knowledge of the situation on the ground anywhere outside the Bay Area, I will say that with 20,000 boats in wet slips here and the very great majority of those leased by people who are not particularly wealthy, it would be a pretty poor business strategy to price the majority of your customers out of the market when there are no new customers to replace them.

[Sailshabby]

Originally Posted by Chenega

Abbot’s is still there..!

Find memories (between patrols, not fond) of picking out your own lobster, brown bagging it, and watching the boats sail by…

[PerfectPirate]

Here on the Great Lakes, at least the Canadian side, we have another disturbing trend: suddenly the 'best and highest' use of land around harbours is for building condominiums. Not combination marina-condominiums, just condos. While the slips often remain, all of the repair and support services necessary to keep boats afloat are forced out of business. Bristol Marine, one of the largest and most capable repair shops on Lake Ontario, with a full downdraft paint booth, just closed permanently. Their municipality is planning to replace the old shipping warehouse building with a new condo complex, like the ones already built right next door.


In my own town, we have also suffered from this condo issue. Most of the land around the harbours which was not already parkland has been filled by tall condo buildings. Once they are in possession, the condo owners who want to look at pretty boats all summer then begin to complain about all the nuisance issues associated with keeping boats afloat. I had some rather strenuous, thankfully purely verbal discussions with one resident last spring who objected to the sound of me sanding the bottom of my boat. The foghorn which graced our lighthouse for many decades, guiding fishermen and cargo schooners home, was silenced several years ago because the townies around the harbour did not like the noise.


Our town, which has long claimed that it did not want to be in the marina business at all, has nonetheless squeezed out all of the private operators in our three harbours and is now, according to reports, the largest marina operator on Lake Ontario. However, they still cannot provide us with regular washrooms, only portable ones, and all harbour finances are hidden by being rolled into general parks and recreation finances. We cannot argue about fees relative to costs because no one, including the town, knows exactly what they are. I do know that in the first eight years of this millennium the town increased slip and storage fees at three times the rate of inflation, while not providing any additional services. When I started sailing out of our harbours, there were lots of older working guys, some retired, who kept small boats and took their kids and grand-kids out sailing on the weekends. They are all gone now, squeezed out by increasing fees, which lately have shown even more signs of jumping up. The annual cost of keeping a 27-foot boat is equal to, or even greater than, the purchase price for many of them. There is no where else to go because nobody else within a two-hour drive has available slips these days, either.

[MicHughV]

Many posters here have opined on the growing condo trend....the question is what can the average boater do about it ???...the answer is probably next to nothing......one must let the mega moguls do their thing, until there is no more $$$ to be made from it anymore...

I get the "waterfront" appeal.....but an "empty marina" or "sparsely populated" marina"....in my humble opinion...is not much of an attraction.....

But, from a purely economic scale...condo's attract the well heeled folk....while I could never live in a condo...many find this an attractive way of life...

In my neck of the woods, a single family home commands a given price....for arguments sake, let's say...$500K....but a condo unit could go several floors up...say 10, on the same plot of land...and each condo can be sold for prices in the $1mil range...so, it's a matter of pure economics...the available boating slip is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

Finally, the big bugaboo for waterfront development is getting the appropriate environmental permits. Trying to build a new marina these days would be an uphill battle of mega proportions...very expensive, time consuming and frustrating. The end result may not be know for years since the start of the first permit application, hence the condo moguls aim for existing marina properties. Sure, there are still permitting requirements, but the waterfront portion is already there.

In Florida, 99.99% of marina's operate in "waters of the State"....in other words, the marina must pay a yearly fee to the State. It's a very complicate and involved business. Very few individuals "own" submerged lands, ie, the mud at the bottom of the marina...very few...
Trying to start a new marina these days would be next to impossible. I'm intimately familiar with this business and can relate some tales.

At the end of the day, the news for boaters, in general, is not very encouraging, and I don't see any immediate changes. It will take a while for this to run it's course.....kinda like Covid.....