Marinas Bite the Big One

[Bycrick]

People want to be "safe." So we'll require every marina to be up to the latest code. Then every employee should get a "living(?) wage." So raise their salaries and benefits. Then we need to protect the environment. So the marina/boatyard has to make expensive improvements. We can’t build new marinas because it takes years to get all the permits, and will certainly repurpose waterfront land that’s now a beach or wetland or swamp. Then we need more services for the "poor," so we will raise taxes on businesses.

Then, when the marina says "We’re going to raise your rent because our costs are increasing," you suddenly feel exploited.

Waterfront land, potentially suitable for a marina is limited. If you want a good quick example of how costs have increased, just look at the condominium building that collapsed in Florida. Built in the 80’s. About 150 units. Valued for insurance purposes at maybe $50 million. After it collapsed, the bare land was sold for $120 million. Try to justify putting a marina there.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

The problem as stated before is that there are no new marina's that I'm aware of.

I can name three marinas in the Bay Area that have either been built within the last few years or are in the the process of being built now. So if it's happening here, it's happening elsewhere.

[Bycrick]

I haven’t lived in the Bay Area for years. But for every "new marina" you say is being built, I can think of one which is dying or dead: Pete's Harbor, San Leandro and Alviso. So the real question is "What’s been the net gain/loss in slip availability?" What’s been the average cost change for a slip since I left in 2000?

[MicHughV]

I'm not familiar with the SF Bay area at all. Florida is my stomping ground. I know the east coast pretty well. Florida...I'm told....is the boating capital of the world...true or not, I don't know, but off the top of my head, I don't know of any "new" marina's...but I know several that have been bought out by the big conglomerates..

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

I haven’t lived in the Bay Area for years. But for every "new marina" you say is being built, I can think of one which is dying or dead: Pete's Harbor, San Leandro and Alviso. So the real question is "What’s been the net gain/loss in slip availability?" What’s been the average cost change for a slip since I left in 2000?

Pete's Harbor- Sold and redeveloped into a new, high-end marina/condo complex a few years ago.

San Leandro Marina- Silted-in and essentially empty. Has been for years. Property slated for redevelopment.

Alviso Marina- In it's heyday it barely qualified as a marina. Maybe a dozen slips? Almost completely silted-in and almost completely empty. This place has been dead for decades.

So for the most part, slip availability has remained relatively stable for at least 30 years. I would say that most Bay Area marinas are at 80-90% capacity or better. As for lease rates? I couldn't tell you. However, I'd say it's a sure bet they've gone up significantly since you last paid them over twenty years ago.

But here's the point- marinas ARE being built, despite the arguments of those here who claim they are not.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Try building one in this environment. Talk about nothing available.

I got a quote for 2 rolls of fiberglass the other day. The only place that could find it quoted $3600. FOR 2 ROLLS!!!

It cost me $5000 to get all the fiberglass to build an entire 50ft x 25ft catamaran. This was a pallet of full rolls stacked chest high and another pallet of specialty biax rolls cut down to a couple widths (8” wide, etc), which came up to knee or waist level.

$3600 for 2 rolls of fiberglass is insane and there is no way in hell im paying that rip off price.

Totally agree about the current ripoffs. Sometimes I just have to laugh at how much something costs, and shop elsewhere or find some other way to get the job done.

Everyone is using COVID as an excuse to raise prices, having already ripped us off for anything "marine".
Greedy vendors will all find out eventually, when sales drop, that their actions led to ruin but the reasonable ones will survive. As for me, I'm getting out for a couple years, selling boat now while the prices are high.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

I can name three marinas in the Bay Area that have either been built within the last few years or are in the the process of being built now. So if it's happening here, it's happening elsewhere.

Hmm. can you actually name the 3 marinas? I hope you are right, or are they just new names for old marinas? I have kept boats at 3 marinas in the Bay. It was never a problem to find a slip in Alameda but usually the ones right on the Bay are full and especially in SF proper.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Hmm. can you actually name the 3 marinas?

Jeezus

Blu Harbor Marina
Westpoint Marina
Brooklyn Basin Marina

[Bycrick]

It’s certainly not impossible to build new marinas. Even at my end-of-the-world, there are a couple of new ones in the last few years. But it’s difficult and expensive to build a new one. Lots of permits and paperwork. Government fees for water use are high unless you can pack in lots of boats. Usually located far from services. Electricity is expensive. Salaries/benefits are low compared to US, but always increasing. Trash hauling rates increased 4-5 times because trash from boats has to be handled under MARPOL rules, not just hauled away by the city. Maintenance costs are high.

Most of the marinas cater to power boats because they’re owned by people with lots of money. None are cheap, even by US standards.

I don’t see things changing for the better.

[Hoodsail]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Must admit 600 bucks a month for a 41 footer seems like a decent price. I’ve been paying my annual slip fee and winter storage up front for many years. And I’ve been retired for nine years….so far.

Jim, i am down the coast from you in Guilford. Pay up front of $2300 due in February for municipal marina for my 35 ft - water, power, bathroom in harbor masters bldg. Was on wait list for 14 yrs.. Largest boat that our small harbor could accommodate would be about 38 ft. Season is April thru end of Oct. Marina is in good shape and fully supported by slip fees, no town $ used.
Winter storage at pvt yard, haul out/splash is $2800 per season, so a solid $5100/yr is bottom line cost w/o any maintenance, repair, etc...I do all routine maintenance as engine tech = $100/hr, general boat yard rate is $80/hr... so not crazy expensive, but also not inexpensive. I have no loan either & a 44 yr old boat, so keelboat ownership can carry significant costs. thnks

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

You miss the point. Just because a marina is bought up by a corporation doesn't mean the marina goes to hell. In fact, the two marinas local to me that were recently bought by Safe Harbor have not only kept their management and maintenance staff intact, the company has dumped money into much needed improvements. Those marinas are better places to keep a boat than they were before Safe Harbor acquired them.

The OP's (and your) point that corporate ownership of marinas is necessarily a bad thing is simply untrue.

Safe Harbor just bought the marina where I have lived for 4 years (now called "Safe Harbor South Bay"). We shall see if anything changes. So far, just the name, but it's only been 2 months.

By the way, there are a ton of empty slips here, no waiting list. That may be because Chula Vista is 2+ hours from the ocean. Prices here are about 20% lower then in San Diego proper.

They've also bought the Shelter Island Boat Yard (now "Safe Harbor Shelter Island") which is the go-to yard for DIY'ers and 3rd party vendors. I have a date to haul out in March so I'm curious to see how it goes.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

I can name three marinas in the Bay Area that have either been built within the last few years or are in the the process of being built now. So if it's happening here, it's happening elsewhere.

Westport Marina, which advertises itself as San Francisco Bay's newest marina, was opened in 2006. It went through a 12-year application process, even though there was no opposition.


Sixteen years ago is hardly "the last few years."


https://westpointharbor.com/story/

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Must admit 600 bucks a month for a 41 footer seems like a decent price. I’ve been paying my annual slip fee and winter storage up front for many years. And I’ve been retired for nine years….so far.

West coast Washington.
40 ft slip, $305 month
Olympia area.
Slip insurance required.
$50 yr.
Boatyarddog

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

Must admit 600 bucks a month for a 41 footer seems like a decent price. I’ve been paying my annual slip fee and winter storage up front for many years. And I’ve been retired for nine years….so far.

I'm subleasing a slip in Stock Island right now, because we're both working and 'net intensive, so we need good wifi being on the hook won't work for us long term.

The rate here is just shy of three grand a month (water, elec and decent 'net included) !!!

600 is a steal!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

People want to be "safe." So we'll require every marina to be up to the latest code. Then every employee should get a "living(?) wage." So raise their salaries and benefits. Then we need to protect the environment. So the marina/boatyard has to make expensive improvements. We can’t build new marinas because it takes years to get all the permits, and will certainly repurpose waterfront land that’s now a beach or wetland or swamp. Then we need more services for the "poor," so we will raise taxes on businesses.

Then, when the marina says "We’re going to raise your rent because our costs are increasing," you suddenly feel exploited.

Waterfront land, potentially suitable for a marina is limited. If you want a good quick example of how costs have increased, just look at the condominium building that collapsed in Florida. Built in the 80’s. About 150 units. Valued for insurance purposes at maybe $50 million. After it collapsed, the bare land was sold for $120 million. Try to justify putting a marina there.

So the real problem in this post is our wages didn’t follow the rest of the inflation.