Microplastics in the sea

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Humanity becoming caretakers and stewards of the Earth requires exactly the same steps as the causes of peace, and ending colonialist oppression and exploitation.

None of which are "reasonable" nor "pragmatic", and of course are not going to involve the cooperation of those currently benefitting from the root causes of our path hellbent toward self-destruction.

These concepts of staying reasonable, "being civil", "building consensus" etc are just delaying tactics, trying to postpone the drastic revolutions required for our species to ensure our survival.

Microplastics are indeed the least of it, just another canary in the coal mine.

Species extinction, both plants and animals, at 1,000 times higher than the natural extinction rate is of greater concern. That is a very conservative estimate, 10,000 more likely.

Man has not known peace for all of recorded history and likely much longer. Anyone who believes that humanity is ready for peace and harmony is delusional at best.

There are forces at play far beyond most peoples willingness to accept and understand. There are groups who are actively planning for the downfall of man and no they are not doomsday preppers as you understand them. Think bigger, much bigger. If you are curious search Breakaway Cavillation and missing 21 Trillion dollars.

I agree the pollution of our little blue ball is horrific and preventable but given the world as you know it historically and today what are the chances that anything meaningful will be done?

SeaQuest OE II

[john61ct]

I did not say I am optimistic.

Just that solving all those big-picture problems all require common paths to deep fundamental systemic changes in how we relate to each other.

A revolution of consciousness as much as a political-economic one.

Perhaps it is more likely at some point during the elimination of most of our species' numbers.

But I like to imagine we could start before things got that bad.

[TigerPaws]

Optimism Opium. Not to rain upon your parade but I live in a world were things are a bit more complicated.

SeaQuest OE II

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Plastics are in pellets for ease/economy of handling; it's almost like a liquid in that state.


If virgin plastics were produced in sheets, bars or larger chunks, and weren't pelletized (if necessary) til they arrive at their final destination, spillage in normal handling would plummet, and recovery of big spills (truck/rail/container accident) could approach 100%.

Plastic is in pellets for a simple reason.. it facilitates feeding the extruders in the sites its delivered to..
Just slash the sack and pour into the hopper.

[john61ct]

How doctors convinced the world the planet was worth fighting for

http://theconversation.com/how-docto...ing-for-122190

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by john61ct

How doctors convinced the world the planet was worth fighting for

How doctors convinced the world the planet was worth fighting for

"Last week, one of the world’s leading medical journals declared the medical community must act now to limit the health effects of climate change."

The first sentence tells me everything I need to know. Climate change = Propaganda.

SeaQuest OE II

[john61ct]

I feel the same way about your last sentence

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I feel the same way about your last sentence

Ok believe what you want to. As long as your belief has no effect on me then you are welcome to do as you please.

Just to be perfectly clear we are talking about the belief in man made climate change and not man made pollution which is a significant problem.

SeaQuest OE II

[boatman61]

I believe snow samples on the Artic are showing on average 10,000 particle per litre.. to little to late.
As for man made climate change..
Only to be expected seeing as we are burning up the carbon sinks with gusto.
Seems basic botany and geology escapes todays superior minds.. bit like the 'discovery' of Organic Farming a few decades back..

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I believe snow samples on the Artic are showing on average 10,000 particle per litre.. to little to late.
As for man made climate change..
Only to be expected seeing as we are burning up the carbon sinks with gusto.
Seems basic botany and geology escapes todays superior minds.. bit like the 'discovery' of Organic Farming a few decades back..

To be clear I am 100% on-board with man made pollution clean-up and control we are destroying our home and that mankind can change.

As for man made climate change, that is little more than Al I invented the internet Gore's hockey stick predictions reinvented to mean anything.

There is this big yellow ball of light and heat that governs our little blue ball as well as our axis tilt which by-the-way was altered 1 degree by the Fukashima magnitude 9 earthquake. Add to that the fact that our magnetic pole is moving at a rate of 55 klicks a year and that the sun is entering a 1,000 year solar minimum.

Science has no idea what is happening to our climate, to confine global changes to man is foolish at and best arrogant at worst.

SaeQuest OE II

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by TigerPaws

Let me say for the sake of argument that technologies exist that could produce unlimited clean and free energy. Imagine for a moment a 1 cubic foot clear box that could supply all of the energy needs for a medium sized city for thousands of years without any pollution. Furthermore imagine that power supply is scalable in size to fit in your car, home, business or wherever.

Sounds great. But what would happen to the fossil fuel industry? What about the tens of millions of people who would lose their livelihood? What about the companies worldwide that would go bankrupt almost overnight and all of the people who rely on them for jobs, medical insurance, retirement and the suppliers to those companies as well as their suppliers and those who service them? What about the global economy and those countries (including the U.S.A.) which depend of fossil fuels for their economies?

Well, first of all, we are already running out of meaningful and decent-paying middle-class jobs in the developed world, and that will only get worse as the use of automation and robotics continues to increase. So this is just a timetable shift.

Then, think of the sudden spending power when people don't have to pay for energy. That would add jobs to meet increased demand.

And finally, they could always be put to work cleaning up the mess from fossil fuels, picking up plastic garbage, building filtration plants to remove microplastics from air and water, etc etc.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Plastic is in pellets for a simple reason.. it facilitates feeding the extruders in the sites its delivered to..
Just slash the sack and pour into the hopper.

Sure, but it still gets melted to be extruded. The factories that receive and use virgin plastics could shred or slice the larger units to feed their extruders.

Yes this is added cost, but what's the cost of cleaning up the pellets that have and will be spilled?

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Exile

But why are we getting into discussions about blameworthiness in any event, if the goal is to raise awareness and potential large scale action about solving issues surrounding microplastics? Far-right and far-left rhetoric can only be unproductive because it reduces the possibility of creating a needed consensus. Solving this problem requires a combination of addressing production, consumer demand, and disposal, so inserting political rhetoric while ignoring that the bulk of plastics entering the seas are from only a couple of Asian countries hardly seems constructive. Less emphasis on blaming whoever's responsible and more on finding realistic solutions are the only constructive ways of moving the issue forward, assuming that the microplastics issue is what this thread is really about.

Good points are raised here, but I'm not really seeing where anybody is being blamed - outside of 1) the "system" of representative government, as it is influenced by the moneyed interests who bestow benefits on them now-a-days, and the lack of present financial contribution limits, as dictated by recent changes such as "Citizens United v. FEC," or 2) the self-dealing of those entities who control major media outlets, and influence what "news" stories are selected for dissemination, based on cross-investment interests in oil and single-use non-biodegradable plastic packaging.

There has been some blame placed on those who would suggest the US take measures to prevent further microplastic contamination, by those who feel the problem is futile because either: a) we don't control the whole world by force, and a portion of the plastic waste comes from Asia - https://qz.com/1689529/nurdles-are-t...-heard-of/amp/

and b) by taking action to address microplastic, we are taking attention and resources away from "tires in the ocean," "the weight of the world's discarded cigarette butts," or ignorant people who throw plastic trash on the beach, while possibly calling themselves "enivronmentalists" - but we are not sure.

If anybody thinks growing microplastic contamination is an issue that is not receiving the fair governmental & media attention is deserves - the best course of action for any "average person" is to bring the issue up in public conversation. IMO, any issue of plastic waste is a 3rd rail of politics, and will not even be politically discussed, much less acted upon, without over-riding public interest.

IMO, Only one thing necessary – Congress – under the basic Commerce clause - would pass a law stating that effective August 26, 2024, all single-use packaging sold in the US must be either naturally biodegradable or revert to inert substances under typical north American conditions within 5 years of natural environmental exposure. President Trump would approve it.

The US is the largest economy in the world. 5 years of ramping up notice for biodegradable single-use packaging, and the profit motive of the capitalistic system will take it from there. Off to the races. Profits are made on new production machinery. Current industry players re-tool with milk carton, or more recent technologies, and supply chains expand with corresponding profit. Economies of scale bring mass production costs down. Manufacturers that sell to the huge US market will also be happy to sell their packaging products to other markets. Other countries inevitably follow the leadership of the US, and their consumers prefer the lack of non-biodegradable single-use plastic waste in their environments. This problem solved - to the extent it can be reasonably addressed.

Some capitalists and companies win big, some others who could not compete, for whatever reason, will be replaced. Those companies who believe it is not worth it to transition in the market will down-size, and their production workers will obtain employment with those companies that are growing in the new market.

[Luckyknot]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I am on your wave length.


Now all we need is more people who think alike, and who ACT.


I live in Spain and I am sometimes so disillusioned looking at young people here tossing carelessly plastic wrappers everywhere. I wonder, are the wrappers the problem, or is it about people? The young here will litter everywhere, in the streets, at the beach. Here now they have a school subject named 'the Environment'. Would you ever believe this. They are taught but they are not taught well enough. Probably too much talking heads and too few 'hey guys, let's clean it up' hands on field exercises.


The other day I was cleaning our part of the marina from plastic bags and wrappers. Not like a hero or something but just that there is so much of this stuff within an easy reach that I grab a handful on my way to the toilets block. As I did my thing I noticed en elderly local doing the same. When we met half way thru our our stretch of the dock, we stopped and chatted. I asked if he too had these 'Environment' classes when he was at school. They guy was maybe 80 or thereabout. He said "my son, when and where I grew up, there were no schools". Jaw drop.


So. What I want to say is that we are not teaching the young well. Yes, there are classes but there is no action. Live is not about knowing, it is about doing. Ask any businessman, activist or artist.



Doh. My two EUR cents of microplastics "how to" for today. ;-)


Very best regards,
barnakiel

I can definitely appreciate that story. Not sure if I'm teaching any better but I often get after the kids on my block when I see them munching candies and whatnot. I tell them, "make sure those wrappers find there way to the trash." They aren't perfect but they try. I also practice what I preach in more ways than one. I have an elderly gentleman who lives on my block. From the moment I moved in I noticed him picking up little bits of litter everytime he set off somewhere. I quickly adopted the same mentality. I may be biased but I'll be damned if we don't have the most trash free block in my neighborhood.

I also work in facilities management and am constantly pushing for more energy efficiency in every way I can see. Problem is that I work in a hospital and they don't much care about anything outside of making money in the healthcare industry. It's an uphill battle but I'll keep pushing that *$!# up the steep incline as long as I'm here. Maybe someone can offer up some advise on how to get the American mentality of capitalism or whatever to help me get some more done around here. It just always seems odd to me that a healthcare institution wants everyone to be healthy while also doing very little to keep the environment they are located in healthy.

[Luckyknot]

To refernce the article about doctors promoting saving the environment, if that was true then the health system I work for wouldn't have a Keurig machine in every office. No I don't use them and yes I've tried to get the "green team" on board with getting rid of them. Nobody is willing to join that fight with me though. Why? Strange things but I guess, why would a business that makes money off of people being sick really want to do everything they can to prevent the diseases in the first place? Good ol' capitalism.
Not to downplay your arguments Hardhead because I think you've said some great things with regard to how a capitalist society SHOULD work but unfortunately this is how it appears to actually work.