monohull vs multihull observation

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Guys, Girls:


But why are cats more expensive to build. They seem lighter and mostlu grp, while monos may be heavier and the heavy part is lead. Looking up lead prices online one discovers it is WAY MORE expensive than grp ...


So why are cats more expensive to build? The materials contained therein seem LESS expensive, pound for pound.


b.

Lead is about $2 per kilo. If you have a source for glass fibre or resin (especially epoxy) cheaper than that, I'll be happy to buy some.

[daletournier]

I always find the cave thing interesting, many older monos were definitely cave like but so are many cats. I have friends that own a schionning ,it seems like a cave to me because they always have the windows covered up and it's always dark ,if not it becomes an oven, same with my friends on a older 57 lagoon , they always have the windows covered, they have to or its unlivable in the tropics, this is the reason the south African cats started going the white slats/steps on the big windows, to make the bridge deck livable.

Then theres the back cockpit, where you live behind a wall and cant see forward, on alot of cats you can see behind only unless you get up and take a walk. Ventilation? I have 10 hatches plus all the side port holes open, definitely no shortage of ventilation.

I like how lagoon have lead the way and dealt with these issues, they started the vertical window thing (I think) and the other marquees have followed and evolved the aesthetics from there.

To say all monos are caves is no more correct than saying all cats a dark and lightless because they need to cover the big useless slanted windows up, both types of boats have evolved for the better IMO.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Lead is about $2 per kilo. If you have a source for glass fibre or resin (especially epoxy) cheaper than that, I'll be happy to buy some.

Lagoons now built in Epoxy? Seriously? Since when?


But you are right the difference is smaller than I wrongly assumed.


Since the difference is small, why are then cats more expensive to build?


b.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Very well put. I would end the discussion right here. I do have the feeling though that 10 years from now most cruising will be done on a cat.

Not down here it won’t, I can’t think of anywhere you could moor or haul out a cat within several days sail, and even in Auckland you will need to look hard. Same applies in Northern Europe.

I guess if you’re just sailing the Med to the Carribean to the Pacific Islands it would be fine, although then you have to find someone to unload it on at the downwind end.

Us Kiwis have even gone back to boats that don’t need a spare hull for the America’s Cup

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Not down here it won’t, I can’t think of anywhere you could moor or haul out a cat within several days sail, and even in Auckland you will need to look hard. Same applies in Northern Europe.



I guess if you’re just sailing the Med to the Carribean to the Pacific Islands it would be fine, although then you have to find someone to unload it on at the downwind end.



Us Kiwis have even gone back to boats that don’t need a spare hull for the America’s Cup

??????

Where are you in NZ? We’re in Auckland and just about every marina can berth cats (albeit several on end berths only) and most hard stands can haul cats. We’ve had no troubles with our cat. Whangarei and BOI have lots of facilities for cats. Are you further south?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Lagoons now built in Epoxy? Seriously? Since when?


But you are right the difference is smaller than I wrongly assumed.


Since the difference is small, why are then cats more expensive to build?


b.

Did I mention Lagoons?

Anyway, if you can source any resin, polyester, vinylester, whatever, or glass fibre for less than $2 a kilo, I'll take a couple of thousand kilos thanks.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I always find the cave thing interesting, many older monos were definitely cave like but so are many cats. I have friends that own a schionning ,it seems like a cave to me because they always have the windows covered up and it's always dark ,if not it becomes an oven, same with my friends on a older 57 lagoon , they always have the windows covered, they have to or its unlivable in the tropics, this is the reason the south African cats started going the white slats/steps on the big windows, to make the bridge deck livable.

Then theres the back cockpit, where you live behind a wall and cant see forward, on alot of cats you can see behind only unless you get up and take a walk. Ventilation? I have 10 hatches plus all the side port holes open, definitely no shortage of ventilation.

I like how lagoon have lead the way and dealt with these issues, they started the vertical window thing (I think) and the other marquees have followed and evolved the aesthetics from there.

To say all monos are caves is no more correct than saying all cats a dark and lightless because they need to cover the big useless slanted windows up, both types of boats have evolved for the better IMO.

Gee, why are you getting so aggressive? Oh, and defensive?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Did I mention Lagoons?

Anyway, if you can source any resin, polyester, vinylester, whatever, or glass fibre for less than $2 a kilo, I'll take a couple of thousand kilos thanks.

OK. Just thinking aloud. No offense!


Alibaba comes to mind.



I have a friend who builds them but we hardly ever talk boats when we meet.


b.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

OK. Just thinking aloud. No offense!


Alibaba comes to mind.



I have a friend who builds them but we hardly ever talk boats when we meet.


b.

No offense taken, I was just hoping for a bargain!

In Aus we're paying more than $20 a kilo for resin (epoxy). Haven't bought glass by weight, but it'd be at least $10 a kilo.

[barnakiel]

To the question somewhere above.


Answer: It is more expensive to build light and strong.


Example: F1 cars, the Mule, AC foiling cats, carbon ski poles.


However, typical cruising cat is not built light and strong. Neither is a typical modern mono cruiser heavy. Hence the question misses the point.


b.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Akapeterc

I am yet to see a catamaran where you can sit and steer the boat and not be exposed to the elements I can stand behind my wheel on my yacht it can be pooring rain and I’m not even getting wet.

I take it you've never seen a cruising catamaran. Except for a handful of silly design that put the helm on the aft corners, most have well protected helms and some have inside helms. Even with those, you can typically steer with the remote control for the autopilot from a protected spot.

As far as the "Cave" question...look carefully at the photos of the non-supposedly cave monos...you can see blue sky and clouds if you are seated...maybe nearby masts and cliff faces if close enough...but not much else. On most Cats, you can see what's actually around you. It is a good idea to get one with overhangs for shade but open the hatches at anchor and you blast thru so much air it's not much of an issue.

The "feel" is really the only place where monos win out over cats...for day sailing/racing, that can be fun. For cruising not so much. Just about everything else an equivalent (key point) will win out.

PS: We can cruise on a $1/day...even cheaper than the $15/day number...if we all agree to ignore the bulk of the actual costs...just like the $15/day number.

[barnakiel]

Yes. Cruising is so much today about not getting wet or sunburnt. You know. Pale and flabby is the new Rocky Balboa.



Definitely the vehicle that protects one from the elements is best. A couch in a bungalow, with a big Netflix plasma beats any cat or mono, hands down. Just add water.



Hence the saying: "A couch potato cruiser".


b.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by fxykty

??????

Where are you in NZ? We’re in Auckland and just about every marina can berth cats (albeit several on end berths only) and most hard stands can haul cats. We’ve had no troubles with our cat. Whangarei and BOI have lots of facilities for cats. Are you further south?

They do say that Aucklanders forget that Auckland isn’t all of New Zealand

Last time I tried in Westhaven, though, there was no visitor mooring for a cat available, and both that and Bayswater are pretty much 99%+ monohulls. Glad you’ve found no troubles there, but anywhere else is going to be interesting. Don’t know about Tauranga, perhaps there’s somewhere there but anywhere south of that you will be out of luck.

I was replying, though, to the “all cruisers will be cats in 10 years” which is patently nonsense outside of the 30N to 30S tradewind route as soon as you look around.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. Cruising is so much today about not getting wet or sunburnt. You know. Pale and flabby is the new Rocky Balboa.

The joys of crotch rot and skin cancer...Is this like walking uphill both ways in the snow with no shoes when you were a kid?

When you refer to Rocky are you talking about Rocky XII when he is brain damaged and bed ridden from taking too many punches?

[alctel]

I sailed down from Canada to Mexico solo last year without a dodger or a bimini and it wasn't particularly fun. I'm getting a dodger built this year (luxury!)