Need to abandon crew

[sck5]

Two things:

"Home" can mean the nearest airport in their country of residence/nationality. E.g. Honolulu if in the Pacific

My experience in the Eastern Caribbean was that they didnt care where they went so long as they were out of their jurisdiction. That typically means a hop to the next island but what Immigration wanted to see was a plane ticket to anywhere else to get them off the crew list. I did this personally in St. Maarten, Antigua, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and Grenada. French islands are so loose about things I have no clue what they wanted or didnt - I do remember they were insistent on original copies of e.g. your documentation. No copies at all.

[Boat Guy]

OP, are you going through a specific issue? Clearly there are different rules depending on the country and differing opinions. But, you might get a clearer answer if you are more specific...

After reading these posts, it seems alcohol is a prevailing theme....

[Ekeno]

Aiming at more structured relations with the crew, there are Standard Contracts that are used and that are based on International Law, to set remuneration, work period, grounds for termination, responsibilities of the parties and the mechanism to terminate the crew in another country. , assuming that the return to be paid is the place of the first shipment?

[Montanan]

As the employer of crew you have very specific legal requirements which are specific to the flag state of the vessel and of your citizenship or country of your legal entity formation. Also when you arrive in a port country, the law of that nation state become applicable.

First, one may not be allowed to disembark the crewperson from your boat with out legal cause and under IMO rules you most certainly will be responsible for their repatriation to their country of citizenship, and with Covid protocols and restrictions crew are needing to be tended to for extended period of time, some for more than one year under their carriage contracts.

Most assuredly any disembarkation of crew will require an issuance of a visa to the crew person by the country at which your vessel has entered.

This is not an informal topic, it is very detailed from a legal standpoint. Your vessel can have a lien imposed and the vessel can be arrested for non-compliance and malfeasance.

Also, as to passengers, or passengers for hire, there are specific laws that apply.

One has to first determine the status of the person in question, crew, passenger or passenger for hire.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Judyfood

As a delivery captain, I have had 2 instances of getting rid of crew in foreign ports.
I booted a crew member in Horta on the island of Faial, Azores. Alcohol was involved on our last night in port (a great deal of it on my crewmembers part, none on my part) along with much disrespect from the crew man so I told him to leave the boat.

My bad experience was in Mx. The husband and wife team had flown in so no problems with immigration like you had to deal with. But my point is alcohol was a factor. 2 people consuming at least a bottle and a half a day. The problem is when they run out. I see now from this thread, I should have dumped them off at the Port where we filled the water tanks up. We spent the night there and off they went to a town 10 miles away to buy more alcohol. I should have dumped their gear and left.

Originally Posted by TXProud

I mistakenly took on a couple that spent the 1st 3 days of what would have been a 21 day throw in a state of intoxication I wasn’t happy about. Told immigration at check in I would be leaving them behind and handed the officer their plane tickets. Dumped their gear on the dock and left after they were 2 hours late for planned departure.

Thanx for this. Now I know what to do next time.

[Ekeno]

Thank´s Montañan

[lo2jones]

Originally Posted by Bill O

How about banishing the offending crew to the dinghy (in tow) until they straighten out????lol

Jokes aside, the captain can be held criminally liable if a crew member is injured or injures themselves whey they are being “dealt with.”

[torroshop]

Have them sign a Crew Agreement prior to setting sail...
"TRIP INTERRUPTION:
You understand that should you leave the yacht, for whatever reason, at a port other than that to which you had agreed in this agreement, you will be responsible for all your own travel and related costs. You also understand and agree that if you are asked to leave the yacht for reasons of lack of competence, inappropriate behavior, crew incompatibility, illness, or the inability to carry out required tasks, which, in skipper's opinion, is endangering the safe operation of the yacht, you will also be responsible for all your own repatriation costs. However, in this event, the Skipper will take all reasonable measures to disembark you at a suitable port along the intended route, from which you can arrange your travel home"

[FlyingScot]

This thread reads like a “why you shouldn’t have crew onboard” compilation.

[mlspadaro]

I have personal experience leaving a vessel in a foreign port (French Polynesia) and also in Fiji in the late 70s. I doubt anything has changed.
You have to go to immigration and the crew will have to show a return airplane ticket to return to their home country and proof of funds to support themselves while in the foreign. country. Then they will be taken off the yachts entry/exit documents.
When I did this, the return ticket could have an open date but would expire in one year.
As a young sailmaker and licensed captain with foreign language skills, I hitch-hiked around the Pacific for two years and signed on/off yachts four times when making passages between Pacific nations.

[mlspadaro]

Originally Posted by torroshop

Have them sign a Crew Agreement prior to setting sail...
"TRIP INTERRUPTION:
You understand that should you leave the yacht, for whatever reason, at a port other than that to which you had agreed in this agreement, you will be responsible for all your own travel and related costs. You also understand and agree that if you are asked to leave the yacht for reasons of lack of competence, inappropriate behavior, crew incompatibility, illness, or the inability to carry out required tasks, which, in skipper's opinion, is endangering the safe operation of the yacht, you will also be responsible for all your own repatriation costs. However, in this event, the Skipper will take all reasonable measures to disembark you at a suitable port along the intended route, from which you can arrange your travel home"

The agreement is irrelevant to the local immigration laws. The local authories hold the captain responsible for taking the crew back out of the country. If the crew has not been properly discharged from the yacht and legally admitted into the country on their own, any agreement you. kay have with the crew is irrelevant. Immigration will look at your documents when you check out of the country and if your crew member hasn’t been discharged from your care by immigration you won’t be able to leave until it’s cleared up.

[belizesailor]

It can vary a LOT by venue of course, but Ive dropped off crew/guests in other countries without undue hassle. However, these have all been willing departures. I have heard unpleasant stories of unwilling departures, but fortunately never experienced that.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Last time we crewed for a boat there were no discounts for crew members to return home.

Interestingly I did find this article about repatriation flights during covid when crews were stuck.

We were in Katmandu, Nepal last March when things shut down.

It cost us $1375 one way to get to DC on a repatriation flight. We had a $900 one way commercial flight but it got canceled...so don't count on a discount...and we were told "it was going to be around" $1250 when we signed up. Only later did they finalize the cost.

By the way it took until September with multiple calls and emails before we got the bill...and before you say, it's their problem, you sign away your right to your passport by taking the repatriation flight until you pay.

[Nibiruwayne]

I’ve never taken on crew I did not know. I’ve always had to check in and out of a different country and a full account to g of crew is required with passports. Penalties for non compliance are delays, fines, possible impoundment etc. almost all the marinas have bulletin board ads for folks looking to crew . I’ve seen no marina with an ‘HR’ department.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In all EU countries and Scandinavia you clear in as tourists , there is no Obligation that you leave via the yacht.

Same in Antigua , Barbados just required informing immigration the crew list was changing.

Same in the US , crew arrived , cleared in , three weeks later left to tour us and fly home , yacht left separately

As for “ crew “ arriving all of them flew in on tourist visas ( where applicable ) where no return flight was planned they just had a letter from me to say they intended to leave via a yacht ( which wasn’t there in one case when they flew in , and they had to change plans and fly to another island. Again no issues as they had or could acquire tourist visas etc

I think one of the things muddying the waters is many countries require proof of onward passage is not the same as getting a visa. You may be allowed in under a tourist visa but that's not really relevant. They don't care how you depart but they want proof that you will leave (and have the ability to leave).
- On your own personal boat, they typically give you the benefit of the doubt that you will leave on the boat you arrived on.
- When someone else is bringing you in, they want evidence that you will leave and the person with the boat is more likely to be able to fund that departure. A stray bum dropped off on the dock may not have the funds, so they look to the person who brought them in to take responsibility

I know it's not a boat but we often get challenged checking into an international flight on a one way ticket (often heading onward to a 3rd country on a separate ticket on a separate airline). The reason is, you can be denied entry without proof of onward passage and it's the airline's responsibility to take you back if you are denied entry.

Part of the inconsistency is likely due to the less formal processing with pleasure craft. Also, some of the stories indicate the crew bought tickets...the country really doesn't care who pays as long as they leave.

Keep in mind, the local authority may use a bit of logic...an American or Brit shows up in a 3rd World country, odds are he's not going to undercut the local workers and when things get rough, he's probably calling his parents to get him a ticket home...so while technically against the rules, they know it's not a big concern...but tying up the captain and getting into a battle over it is a lot of paperwork.