Newbie questions, crossing the Atlantic

[Larry Florida]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Re #41

Interesting - that :-)!

Tartan 3000s seem to list for 10 months' lease payments at that rate. No doubt they sell for rather less.



TP

Yep your numbers are sound. I paid 18k a few years ago. Cost of ownership is about 500 a month if you are handy. To rent or own is an age old question.

[TrentePieds]

Skywalker:

This just came in through the ether :-):

https://www.popyachts.com/sloop-sail...49501?c=335410


For a listing price of US$16.5K, and I would suspect for a settlement price of rather less, this particular boat seems to have all you would need for what you want to do. At least it seems to be an excellent "starter kit" I sailed quite a few Columbias in the old days and always thought they were well built and handled well.

I offer you this essentially as a datum for what IMO you should be looking for. The boat is American, but you will find similar boats on the Canadian side of the lakes, and you can then just pop down the St.L and be in the Maritimes and on your way to Greenland afore ye ken.


TP

[john61ct]

PopYachts, meh!

[TrentePieds]

Not to worry, John :-)

Our friend won't be buying on the Yankee side. The pics in the listing are educational and so are the specs :-).

Your job and mine is to help the newbs along as best we can. THEIR job is to learn :-)!


TP

[TrentePieds]

Skywalker:

Here is another link about the Columbia 10.7. Have a good old look at it and see if you can divine what the features are that would make one of these a good boat for your purposes. And see if you can identify what features might make one of these not so good :-)

COLUMBIA 10.7 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

TP

[petermjdavies]

I think the advice about buying a boat and learning how to maintain it while doing coastal cruising is excellent.

Why not start on the West Coast where you are? Beautiful sailing grounds. Not wanting/being able to enter the USA is a bit of a problem for either coast.

Have you considered buying your boat in a new cruising ground? If you want to cruise Europe, why not buy in Europe. Then you can spend your money on things that matter for coastal cruising not ocean cruising. You will also be closer to help if something goes wrong rather than having to buy tons of spares that you would need for ocean sailing.

[sailorladd]

Hi Skywalker, I know about the desire to chuck it all in and get a boat and sail around the world. I was about your age when I actually set sail. I first had to build a boat and then learn how to sail it, how to navigate and a bunch of other related subjects. I also wrote a book after I had completed my adventure, and my advice to you is to DO it...They were easily the finest days of my life, filled with fun, laughter, friends, achievement, and a couple of terrifying miserable times as well.... can't have the smooth without rough...LOL

Seeing as you want to single hand which I did for a lot of my journey, it is important to learn how to do things YOUR way. Seeing as you are going to be the only one in charge of your boat and yourself, you need to be able to think like this, and as you say, you are a quick learner, you need to make lightening quick decisions at the least expected times, so be your own boss! I would also suggest doing a lot of reading of similar adventures, Joshua Slocum's Sailing alone around the world springs to mind....amazon kindle has many great books just on this subject. Have confidence in yourself AND your boat, it's just going to be the two of you out there.... Do lots of local sailing from where you plan on leaving... talk to local sailors as well about conditions... build up your trips incrementally...fair winds and tight lines, and take a lot of books with you

[SuW]

Originally Posted by Skywalker204

Would being stored under a tarp be sufficient keeping the snow and water off it or do you think it would have to be in a heated buidling?

I live in Eastern Ontario. Almost all boats here are well covered for the winter with (usually) metal frames* and good covers, either canvas or plastic. The point is not to stop all water on the boat** (there is usually some condensation under a tarp in the early or late winter) but to stop snow, ice and most of all leaves from blocking the cockpit drains that then fill the cockpit with water that leaks down the hatch to fill the interior...also, keeping the sun out somewhat.

A neglected boat may be not worth repairing. We bought a 1976 boat in 2009 and have spent 10 years bringing her back. Second time we've done this. Kinda stupid, if you ask me!

*Unsolicited testimonial: Kover Klamps
**After all, boats are meant to be water-tight...hehe...

[bouncycastle]

Ocean sailing is the easy part its the rest that snookers you
£5 foot boats equipment failure really hurts just go price a spinaker pole which are prone to breaking easy peasy
Inboard engines can ruin all budgets with gear box faulres engine failures prop shaft failures easy to spend $10,000 getting old diesel 4 pot back to running condition if the previous owner was idiot and most weekend sailors are idiots when it comes to Inboards forgeting to grease or change oil whatever

Start with smaller boat about 20 to 25 feet .Then if you lose anchors or spinnaker poles winch handles stuff tends to be in the hundreds not the thousands .
Prices of boats in europe are always dropping as old boats keep to go forever and less people want to get involved with sailing the typical ~$4000 a year to park in marinas for 20 foot boats

Charter boats in the Greek isalnds and Turkey are often ~30 feet and can sell for less than ~$10,000 but they do need repairs and often the engine is shot to pieces .I seen cyclinder heads epoxy glued on because spares like gaskets are to hard to get in charter season Boats on the south spain coast of less than 25 feet can sell fairly cheap if they are old

In five years time look the planet for the boat you want go there and buy it as chances are prices will have dropped ~30% on todays prices for the same boats but they will often be 5 years older

Look to replace the rigging with the new plastic type solutions as most stainless steel rigging is past its sell by date after ~15 years .The plastic wire solutions are more easy to do as DIY sailors and better when your not in modern parts like Europe and USA where stailess steel riggers can be got for lowwer prices .

I prefer to rest now in the 20 to 25 foot regions old boats ~1970 to ~1980 .Then if things go bad at the destination I can sell it off even losing 90% the value and hop on plane to go back home or other destination such as crewwing on larger boats and lot cost the earth in marina costs .
If storm comes and i am on anchor i take tent pitch it ashore and let boat ride it out .If it doesnt well time to go buy another one .I often of i like a new place will rent a apartment especaily if its offseason as prices are good and put boat up on the hard or even the beach if its free to do that.
The smaler boat for me is only the way to get from A to B like small car and then sort something the other end .The extrra room on large boats is the most expensive room per square or cubic foot ever invented and unless you got resources like good rent from house back home to keep you going the saving quickly drop .Many countries don't allow people to do any work there so working and topping up incomes can often be scarce or non existent.
.
In fact The USA peoples are often more able to get work permits as for every work permit givin in some other part of the world the USA will reciprocate the work permits for their country .Canadian dont get a look in on that deal

However your younger with more energy so your abilities to pick up welding work exist if you bring your tools with you .

Even if you find them for nothing the majority steel boats, concrete boats and many wooden boats are not interesting .The steel are often too heavy below 45 feet .Same for concrete . Wooden boats are so hard to know if they are rotten or not and then the work to keep them afloat is hard work .Even Plywood boats have issues if the boats are too old the glue keeping the plys together can be breaking up from age going brittle whatever and break up .

Fiber glass is safest but funny some modern boats are builts to thin with cores that are rotten .The older fiber glass boats were built way to heavy nearly as heavy as some steel boats so slow boat to china or you have to double the size of the sails if you want to sail in mid latitudes where the average wind is force three .

There is one Vlog some guy I think eastern European (I forget the link) buys ~20 foot boats every year sails from Europe across the Atlantic to close to Greenland then turns around and sails back .Then he sells the boat. That sailing is cheap as chips no marina costs two months at sea no issues with docks and VISA requirements just pure sailing .Also the high latitudes tend to have wind where once you go south of north Spain wind becomes near non existent in summer seasons

Bon chance but the mame bouncy castle is what you say when your in ~25 foot boat in force 9 its tie yourself in and batten the hatches and pray .

The sailing world is full of atheists that take to praying in bad storms .


Start collecting the parts for big boats like anchors chain spinnaker poles sails ,tenders outboards life rafts all sorts .
You can often trim old sails to suit another boat .
Racing boats often sell their sails which are tough stuff like Kelvar for interesting prices when they are ten years old . Even if you dont use them often you can swop the stuff for other things you need

That way when you get a big boat in ~5 years time you will have a lot of the pricy extras already .

Good idea get away from it all

[Unregistered-1]

Just do it. Start small and work up - not because you can't handle a bigger boat, but because little boats teach you lessons that you wouldn't dare learn in a larger boat, such as what a cartwheel or capsize feels like, how to avoid one, and how to remain methodical and practical after its happened. These skills on a larger boat make you a very safe sailer. So start with a little 15ft'er and give it death in all conditions, maybe even race it with the local sailing club - they will help you upright your boat again in the open sea until you can do it yourself! No cruisers get to practice that, nor should they.

At the same time, get something a little larger you can live on and do overnight trips etc. Once you have it all nailed down, buy the vessel you WANT.

[Pinto]

Hi

I believe there are boats around that won't depreciate much - do some research and talk to a lot of people. Choose a boat that is in good condition and keep it that way.

As far as leaning if never having sailed before - to me - that's an easy first step


Buy a sailing dinghy - learn to sail and have fun.


If you can sail a dinghy - you can sail anything.

Along the way you will meet many people - and people are always happy to share advice when someone is going on an odyssey


It's a great life.

[liquidice]

Originally Posted by SteveWrightNZ

Just do it. Start small and work up - not because you can't handle a bigger boat, but because little boats teach you lessons that you wouldn't dare learn in a larger boat, such as what a cartwheel or capsize feels like, how to avoid one, and how to remain methodical and practical after its happened. These skills on a larger boat make you a very safe sailer. So start with a little 15ft'er and give it death in all conditions, maybe even race it with the local sailing club - they will help you upright your boat again in the open sea until you can do it yourself! No cruisers get to practice that, nor should they.



At the same time, get something a little larger you can live on and do overnight trips etc. Once you have it all nailed down, buy the vessel you WANT.

This is really solid advice. I have come from a dinghy sailing and racing background as a youngster. I got a 25’ sailboat 4 years ago for around the price of annual storage. I have gotten many unsolicited compliments on my boat handling skills (inside and outside the harbor) from other marina inhabitants. You can find racing series in 14’ dinghies like 420s with fractional rigs, spinnakers, and other skills that transfer to big boats. If you’re a “learning by doing “ person, I think one season will teach you a lot about sailing in a very short period, as well as get you “in” with people that have boats already, and it’s usually pretty cheap. My $.02

[Dauntlessny]

Originally Posted by Skywalker204

Would sailing from nova scotia to the Caribbean be a wiser way to start?

What about NS to Maine? That would be even better.

[Skywalker204]

So i think i may have found my first boat! Its a 1983 22ft macgregor with retractable keel. I like that its trailerable so i can move it from lake too lake easily and take it out of the water when im away at work. Id be living on it for 1 week every month in untill the water freezes. The seller is aksing 6800 cnd$. What kinda of questions should i be asking the seller about the history of the boat and what kind of things should i be looking for? Id most likely spend most of the time on lake winnipeg where the waves can get up to 6ft high. Do you think this a good purchase or should i keep looking?
Here is the add


Please view this ad:

MacGregor 22 foot Sailboat,
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/winnipeg/macgregor-22-foot-sailboat/1424903785?utm_source=com.google.android.apps.docs &utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_ content=app_android

Price: $*6,800

Download the application from the Google Play Store.
https://tinyurl.com/9x9f4jd

[SuW]

Originally Posted by Skywalker204

So i think i may have found my first boat! Its a 1983 22ft macgregor with retractable keel.

That price is perhaps high considering the region (around Lake Ontario is cheaper probably), but it's not totally out of range.
Basically at that age, it's all about the condition of the boat - what shape are all the more expensive components in? It's hard to say from pictures.
Trailer, motor, sails, drop keel, hull, exterior, woodwork, cushions and so on.
How much has the owner used the boat? Did he keep it in the water or trailer launch it every time? Is it clean? Does it smell funny? Does it leak rainwater? Has he serviced the keel mechanism?
Will he take you out on it and make sure you understand everything? If you can get a reasonable relationship, he can make your life easier.
If you have a friend that can look at it with you to take notes and be Devil's Advocate, that can help, I find.