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**boatman61** · 03-02-2023, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Yes - but -
Its up to me to check that the crew that is joining my boat has a passport that allows him to enter the country at the far end. Frinstance - I would not take crew on an Australian passport to Chile unless they could show me that - before departure - they had a Chilean visa. ( yep Australia has really screwed the pooch on that one).

However if I take crew that has a UK passport I know that on arrival they will get a 90 day visa stamped in their passport with no fuss.
They are then free to go their way and I am free to go mine. Like the airliner pilot I can fly/sail away the next day without them.
If they overstay their visa that is their problem not mine.

Interestingly I have never -when arriving by air- had anyone in a south american country ask me about a return ticket and that is without them knowing I was joining a boat.

Real life.. as opposed to lowerdeck lawyers..

mvweebles · 03-02-2023, 18:49

All I can say is I delivered yachts it for a living for about 5 years. Changes your perspective when your livelihood is at risk. You take regulatory obligations more seriously even if getting caught is not likely. The OPs question was obligations, not what he might get away with.

As far as if you encounter person(s) in need of assistance, you should report it to appropriate authorities so they can triangulate with overdue vessles/persons.

This really isn't that hard.

mvweebles · 03-02-2023, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Real life.. as opposed to lowerdeck lawyers..

You're right. Captain has zero obligation.

Hope your luck holds out. Oh wait, you're the guy who single-hands deliveries. How do you have a dog in this hunt?

El Pinguino · 03-02-2023, 19:59

Some countries - esp small island states - probably have quite different rules to places that have land borders. Try getting crew **into** Tonga on a one way ticket for instance.

I'm not dodging any system in Chile. Typically my yacht is 'in country' for two years at a stretch and not only will the crew quit the country during that time but I will as well - maybe 4 or 5 times over the two years. What I then have to do for the aduana is do a 'poder simple' appointing someone as my agent in my absence.

As I tried to explain above a 90 day visa is a 90 day visa however you arrive - by plane or sea.

Different deal on a merchant ship where the crew don't even enter the country and up until about 50 years ago didn't even need a passport, but only needed a British Seaman's Card or foreign equivalent. Then - yes - the ship had to sail with the same people it arrived with and there were - depending on the country - strict limits on how far beyond port limits crew could travel. And if you had chinese crew jump ship in a US port it was a very expensive business indeed.

El Pinguino · 03-02-2023, 22:06

Nothing here about leaving Australia with the same people you arrived with
https://www.abf.gov.au/entering-and-...pleasure-craft

**boatman61** · 04-02-2023, 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvweebles

You're right. Captain has zero obligation.

Hope your luck holds out. Oh wait, you're the guy who single-hands deliveries. How do you have a dog in this hunt?

I single-hand my own boats.. for deliveries I have crew/owner for insurance obligations.
As El Ping said, one makes sure the appropriate visa's are in place and/or choses citizenships that are uncomplicated whenever possible.. avoid entering Islamic countries with US/Israeli citizens for example, S Pacific EU crew are preferable to any others..
It is not possible to force an owner to leave his boat if its an assist so if the situation becomes difficult I leave instead.
Your problem is your confusing commercial facts with leisure reality.
In the other thread the owner had zero obligations as the 'crew' was there for a holiday and had a visa to be in the Bahama's one assumes and, being an American a blind eye was turned to the fact he had no return ticket.
No luck involved.. just grey matter..

**boatman61** · 04-02-2023, 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Some countries - esp small island states - probably have quite different rules to places that have land borders. Try getting crew **into** Tonga on a one way ticket for instance.

I'm not dodging any system in Chile. Typically my yacht is 'in country' for two years at a stretch and not only will the crew quit the country during that time but I will as well - maybe 4 or 5 times over the two years. What I then have to do for the aduana is do a 'poder simple' appointing someone as my agent in my absence.

As I tried to explain above a 90 day visa is a 90 day visa however you arrive - by plane or sea.

Different deal on a merchant ship where the crew don't even enter the country and up until about 50 years ago didn't even need a passport, but only needed a British Seaman's Card or foreign equivalent. Then - yes - the ship had to sail with the same people it arrived with and there were - depending on the country - strict limits on how far beyond port limits crew could travel. And if you had chinese crew jump ship in a US port it was a very expensive business indeed.

Try entering the USA on a one way ticket ESTA's or not..
The owner of the boat involved in my Oz delivery insisted on arranging the flights for myself and two crew from London to Miami.. he bought one way tickets.
We were stopped by a DHS official at the boarding gate and spent three days in a hotel while we waited for the owner to sort out the mess.. he finally got a local law officer to confirm that we were joining a vessel that would be leaving the country with us aboard.
A once experienced, not to be repeated event.. I found it easier to enter Pakistan on a one way ticket with my UK passport..

Stewie12 · 06-02-2023, 06:53

In St. Lucia 2 crew decided they were going to stay. To get them off my crew list with immigration I had to buy them one way tickets to the next island. Immigration then deported them.

parkstone bay · 06-02-2023, 06:59

Not exactly the same but one time we returned to our home port, (Poole), after an unpleasant Channel crossing, to find a picnicking motorboat on our mooring.
The skipper - like the rest of the crew - wasn't 100% full of the milk of human kindness, but he really let rip when the trespasser, on being told that he was on our mooring, replied: "OK, we'll move, but can you wait until we've finished our lunch?"

argonauta1 · 06-02-2023, 06:59

Best option: single hand or keep it family. Worst is guest decides he is paid crew. Imagine that!

Happ · 06-02-2023, 07:01

I was crewing on a delivery with the owner. We stopped due to weather. An accident on the boat broke 2 of my fingers. I had insurance and there was nothing could be done other than buddy tape the fingers. It was not wise to continue so I flew home. The owner paid for the flight and reimbursed me for my deductible at the hospital.

MJH · 06-02-2023, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammer

Here's are two interesting questions that come to mind from another thread:

Exactly what are the obligations the master of a vessel has towards someone who wishes to leave the vessel?

And what are the obligations towards someone who the master of the vessel no longer wants aboard?

Presuming no medical emergency exists, it has always been my understanding that the obligation in either case is to disembark the individual at the next port of call. But on a private vessel the "next port of call" can be a somewhat murky and flexible concept.

I have sometimes wondered what would I would do if I were to rescue some kayakers or fisherman in the apostle islands. If I were on my way to, say, Oak Island, where there is a dock but no scheduled ferry service, no cell phone coverage, really nothing but a few campsites, would I fulfill my obligation to help them out by leaving them there? Does the answer change if I encourage them to use my satphone to contact an (expensive) on-call water taxi service? It might be a week or more before a small sailboat intent on gunkholing might choose to return to a major port. Am I required to divert to Bayfield to drop them off?

Like the Exumas, the USA/Canada border waters have any number of places like this with a dock out but without any prompt, economical means by which someone might return to a major city.

This question underscores the importance of knowing who you are sailing with very well; their general attitude, skills, and temperament. Unfortunately, it happens more often than you would think. Not everyone is compatible with sailing, particularly long-distance sailing.

Due to insurance requirements I had to add two crew for my voyage to Hawaii (22.5 days). A few days before arrival the two I added were no longer capable of working together and on the verge of fisticuffs. I had to rearrange the shift schedule to ameliorate the situation. The most aggressive party got off the boat on arrival.

Solo sailing eliminates this problem entirely.

Stewie12 · 06-02-2023, 08:38

Best to consult with immigration in whatever country the crew wishes to leave, before they leave and that way you can comply with immigration and save yourself a possible problem.