Offshore In a northstar 1000?

[Kettlewell]

Final thought, anyone who says you need an Alberg design or something of similar vintage has not sailed long distances in obscure parts of the world . Most of the boats you see are much more recent designs - fin keels, even spade rudders - 'the horror, the horror'.

^^This^^ And in my experience, the people on the smaller, simpler boats tend to be the happiest too.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

In that length range something from Alberg/Cape Dory would be more in line for a "cruising" boat.

Originally Posted by AiniA

Final thought, anyone who says you need an Alberg design or something of similar vintage has not sailed long distances in obscure parts of the world .

Since I'm the only one on this thread who mentioned Alberg I'll respond.
You might notice that I did not use the word "need", I said, "more in line for a 'cruising" boat.
You are correct, I have not sailed long distances in obscure parts of the world.
But, to use a line from a Bob Dylan song, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
As others have posted the Northstar is a racer.
Even a cursory glance at the hull shape, rig, deck plan, cockpit, and interior of an Alberg, (and the capsize number,) would show it to be far superior as a "cruiser" than a 1/2 Ton class race boat.

[Fore and Aft]

HoboSailor I have surveyed similar and smaller boats that have been offshore and survived. You don't need a big crew to sail this yacht. Maybe in 1973 when she was designed for sure. But now a good autopilot, chartplotter, roller furler and kite in a sock makes life so much simpler. Ad those items and I would have no problems letting my teenage son single hand her. The capsize ratio is just a number. Any vessel in the wrong circumstances can sink or capsize.
AiniA has a good reply which makes a lot of sense.
Cheers

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by AiniA

In our travels we were amazed with the incredible range of boats you find in Tahiti, or Oz, or South Africa that have sailed many thousands of miles to get there. Could you do it with this boat properly upgraded? In all likelihood. Would it be my choice in this size and price range (a hugely important consideration)? Probably not.

I would look at this matter slightly differently. Figure our how much this boat is worth as it is ($A). Add on how much it would cost to bring it up to the standard you want ($B). Would kind of boat could you get, already prepped, for $A + $B. Would it do a better job than this boat upgraded? For you to decide.

Final thought, anyone who says you need an Alberg design or something of similar vintage has not sailed long distances in obscure parts of the world . Most of the boats you see are much more recent designs - fin keels, even spade rudders - 'the horror, the horror'.

I never mentioned a price range so what are you talking about?

All I asked is how the boat would handle open ocean. Was hoping someone might have actual experience with this design and not just quote Google at me or question my abilities or give me random nonsense answers like "it has to be really nice" ��

I would really rather not just buy a boat already in my destination. That's rich people talk.
I already own this boat. It's here and now.
I bought it because it's supposedly an offshore racer so it can go offshore? But ppl are saying it cant so idk. I think it can I just wanted to be sure.
I plan on doing upgrades, rough estimate on those upgrades will be about 15-20 thousand over the next couple years. I don't find that an unreasonable amount at all. And any boat you buy for 20k out of country is going to need alot of the same work done anyways.

[TrentePieds]

Hobo said: "I'm not even within 100km of my boat right now 😂"

Well, that'd take you beyond Hope, wouldn't it ;-)? Unless your boat is on VI, of course.

We appreciate that you've let us know something about your experience. Please remember that NO-ONE here has said that you cannot take this boat to any destination on the globe. Some of us feel that there are better designs for that purpose, but none of us have said that you CANNOT do it in this boat.

I have said explicitly that the CSF is irrelevant and apparently others agree with me. The CSF is but a read herring, IMO, and the fact that your FIRST question in this thread was about the CSF caused me to go back and read all your posts since you joined us. Based on that reading, which is all we had to go on before you expanded on the topic of your competence, I concluded that a warning would not be inappropriate.

So let me say again: The CSF is a red herring. It has NOTHING to do with whether you can take this boat to the ends of the earth. What DOES have to do with it is YOUR competence as a skipper. Only you know what that is. We, the members of CF, cannot possibly know. If and when you post from, say, Port Arthur (AU), Puerto Williams ICH) or Richard's Bay (SA) that matter will have clarified itself without any possibility of being questioned :-)!

Bonne chance :-)!

TrentePieds

[boatman61]

Yes you can take it offshore, your only limits to distance will be water and food storage.. crossing the 1st leg of the Pacific for example could take upto 50 days.. and on reaching the Marqueasas there's no guarantee of potable water as I found out.. so work out a good water catchment system..

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by AiniA

In our travels we were amazed with the incredible range of boats you find in Tahiti, or Oz, or South Africa that have sailed many thousands of miles to get there. Could you do it with this boat properly upgraded? In all likelihood. Would it be my choice in this size and price range (a hugely important consideration)? Probably not.

I would look at this matter slightly differently. Figure our how much this boat is worth as it is ($A). Add on how much it would cost to bring it up to the standard you want ($B). Would kind of boat could you get, already prepped, for $A + $B. Would it do a better job than this boat upgraded? For you to decide.

Final thought, anyone who says you need an Alberg design or something of similar vintage has not sailed long distances in obscure parts of the world . Most of the boats you see are much more recent designs - fin keels, even spade rudders - 'the horror, the horror'.

So I figure about 25-30k all in. Spread out over the next few years. Which is affordable. For that price I could get something better your probably right. Then again with prices the way they are who knows. This boat may not be ideal but it's what I have now. For shits and giggles I looked at some 20k boats. Honestly they weren't rlly that much better than what I have now 🤷*♂️ in bought ths boat because it was a discount and it was supposedly made for offshore sailing. I mean....what exactly makes it unqualified? That's what I was hoping to find with this post. Straight answers about the competency of the boat, from people who have experience with the design

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Hobo said: "I'm not even within 100km of my boat right now 😂"

Well, that'd take you beyond Hope, wouldn't it ;-)? Unless your boat is on VI, of course.

We appreciate that you've let us know something about your experience. Please remember that NO-ONE here has said that you cannot take this boat to any destination on the globe. Some of us feel that there are better designs for that purpose, but none of us have said that you CANNOT do it in this boat.

I have said explicitly that the CSF is irrelevant and apparently others agree with me. The CSF is but a read herring, IMO, and the fact that your FIRST question in this thread was about the CSF caused me to go back and read all your posts since you joined us. Based on that reading, which is all we had to go on before you expanded on the topic of your competence, I concluded that a warning would not be inappropriate.

So let me say again: The CSF is a red herring. It has NOTHING to do with whether you can take this boat to the ends of the earth. What DOES have to do with it is YOUR competence as a skipper. Only you know what that is. We, the members of CF, cannot possibly know. If and when you post from, say, Port Arthur (AU), Puerto Williams ICH) or Richard's Bay (SA) that matter will have clarified itself without any possibility of being questioned :-)!

Bonne chance :-)!

TrentePieds

Ya boats on ssi and I'm on the west coast of VI for work for another week or two.

Hey sorry I may have misread your comment.
Anyways I'm not saying I'm some master sailor or anything. But I have sailed the strait, and around the gulf islands atleast and don't feel worried about my own abilities I was more wondering if people had experience with this model of boat and had thoughts about it's ability to sail offshore long distances. Some people rlly have said its a no-go.
It's good to know the csf can be tossed out the window. I was worried about it nor going to lie.

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yes you can take it offshore, your only limits to distance will be water and food storage.. crossing the 1st leg of the Pacific for example could take upto 50 days.. and on reaching the Marqueasas there's no guarantee of potable water as I found out.. so work out a good water catchment system..

Ha yeah fair enough. I'm thinking of a 12v water maker to go with my 40 gallon tank. I'd bring extra parts just in case and would also have a hand pump water maker in the go bag for the life raft so if the 12v one were to break I could use the hand pump in an emergency

What kind of boat did you make the crossing in? When? And were you solo sailing or crew sailing?

[TrentePieds]

Well, Hobo - if you are willing to accept that we have your best interests at heart and that we are willing to give you sound guidance even if at times that guidance sounds "harsh", and a variance with your present understanding of seafaring, then you can indeed go a long way, both in the boat and intellectually, and become a long distance sailor quite quickly. Many of our forum-mates will stand with me in that statement.

Pay attention to Boatie! He knows whereof he speaks. He knows about this sort of stuff cos he's a professional delivery skipper with experience in all kinds of boats. Others in this forum can look at a set of "lines" (representing in two dimensions on paper the shape of the hull in three dimensions "in the flesh") and predict with fair accuracy the handling characteristics of the subject boat without actually having to sail it to do so.

Similarly these people can look at a sail plan and predict with fair accuracy what crewing skills will be needed to sail the boat effectively at sea, bearing in mind that lines and sail plan have to be understood as complements to one another.

Then having done that, these same people can tell you with fair accuracy what dangers the particular lines present you with when working in unison with the particular rig. The rig shown for the Northstar is a jim-dandy racing rig, but requires far more attention than a cruising rig, and it requires it continually and unceasingly, and it will become one heck of a handful for a single-hander when things begin to go sideways - as they inevitably will somewhere along the way.

You can take some of the pain away by employing such things as autopilots. But remember that the things most prone to go sideways are PRECISELY the mod cons. So you enhance your safety by not having them! But, as always, there are no rules without exceptions. In this case you will probably do yourself a favour by swopping out the hank-on headsails for a roller furling sail because this boat will be utterly gripe-prone. When I was an instructor we lost two men (not MY students, I'm glad to say) right in English Bay off a gripe prone boat the type of which need not be mentioned. Its lines and rig were (are) however very much like those of the Northstar.

And as for Boatie's comments about water - remember that the emergency ration for men at sea was - when men at sea were men at sea and women were glad of it - half a pint per man per day! That can lead to a certain characteristic pong below decks :-)!

Cheers!

TP

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Since I'm the only one on this thread who mentioned Alberg I'll respond.
You might notice that I did not use the word "need", I said, "more in line for a 'cruising" boat.
You are correct, I have not sailed long distances in obscure parts of the world.
But, to use a line from a Bob Dylan song, "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
As others have posted the Northstar is a racer.
Even a cursory glance at the hull shape, rig, deck plan, cockpit, and interior of an Alberg, (and the capsize number,) would show it to be far superior as a "cruiser" than a 1/2 Ton class race boat.

Have you ever actually been ON a northstar 1000? It's roomy af inside. More so than my friends 36 foot.
What exactly do you consider wrong about the hull dhape, or the rig. The decks are actually made to be flat when your heeled over. And the cockpit, ya that I don't like either. It's annoying.

Considering your "infinite knowledge" and apparently budget too, what do YOU sail?
You suggest just buying a new boat but some of us don't have that luxury.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Hobo,

Well, I thought it was time for some alternate "facts" to be presented.

From 1976 until 1983 I owned and sailed a Yankee 30 Mk 3 named Dominique. I was based in SF Bay and was a pretty active sailor. The Y-30 is another S&S design from the same era, pretty similar in most respects to your boat, ie a modest racer/cruiser built by a respected yard.

During those years I daysailed with friends, raced with crew in the bay, did several cruises to the Channel Islands, once with a 14 and a `12 year old boy for crew. I also was heavily into single hand ocean racing in the Gulf of Farallones, with season championships in 4 of the 8 in which I competed. Then in 1983 Ann (JPA Cate here on CF) and I did a fast round trip to Hawaii (a bit over 6 weeks total time). During the outbound passage we weathered tropical storm Gil, during which we had our best ever day's run of 168 miles under storm jib alone. We were not concerned for our safety at any time. That boat would sail herself indefinitely with helm free, or a bit better with it lashed, anywhere from close hauled to near beam reaching. An Autohelm 2000 tiller pilot would steer her well, even with a big kite up. And when that bloody thing died a few days out of Kauai I rigged a sheet to tiller system that got us the remaining 1500+ miles of mostly broad reaching back to SF. (Hardly the unstable vessel that others seem to see).

I think this record should indicate that one can indeed successfully sail offshore in such boats despite the opinions of many expressed upthread. The Hawaii trip did show us that despite her sterling sailing characteristics, as an offshore cruiser she had a drawback: she liked to sail at 20+ degrees of heel, and we found that for us, this was a big fatigue factor. Not an issue coastal cruising where one usually stops for a rest every few days, but definitely one on longer passages... and when we set out a few years later for an open ended cruise into the Pacific it was in a somewhat larger and stiffer boat.

I forgot to mention that all the above was done without any furlers or self tailing winches, no windlass, celestial nav and only a 12 channel VHF for communications.

In short, unless there is some unseen by me difference in the basic designs, I think your boat will serve your plans pretty well.

Good luck!

Jim

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Well, Hobo - if you are willing to accept that we have your best interests at heart and that we are willing to give you sound guidance even if at times that guidance sounds "harsh", and a variance with your present understanding of seafaring, then you can indeed go a long way, both in the boat and intellectually, and become a long distance sailor quite quickly. Many of our forum-mates will stand with me in that statement.

Pay attention to Boatie! He knows whereof he speaks. He knows about this sort of stuff cos he's a professional delivery skipper with experience in all kinds of boats. Others in this forum can look at a set of "lines" (representing in two dimensions on paper the shape of the hull in three dimensions "in the flesh") and predict with fair accuracy the handling characteristics of the subject boat without actually having to sail it to do so.

Similarly these people can look at a sail plan and predict with fair accuracy what crewing skills will be needed to sail the boat effectively at sea, bearing in mind that lines and sail plan have to be understood as complements to one another.

Then having done that, these same people can tell you with fair accuracy what dangers the particular lines present you with when working in unison with the particular rig. The rig shown for the Northstar is a jim-dandy racing rig, but requires far more attention than a cruising rig, and it requires it continually and unceasingly, and it will become one heck of a handful for a single-hander when things begin to go sideways - as they inevitably will somewhere along the way.

You can take some of the pain away by employing such things as autopilots. But remember that the things most prone to go sideways are PRECISELY the mod cons. So you enhance your safety by not having them! But, as always, there are no rules without exceptions. In this case you will probably do yourself a favour by swopping out the hank-on headsails for a roller furling sail because this boat will be utterly gripe-prone. When I was an instructor we lost two men (not MY students, I'm glad to say) right in English Bay off a gripe prone boat the type of which need not be mentioned. Its lines and rig were (are) however very much like those of the Northstar.

And as for Boatie's comments about water - remember that the emergency ration for men at sea was - when men at sea were men at sea and women were glad of it - half a pint per man per day! That can lead to a certain characteristic pong below decks :-)!

Cheers!

TP

Well "boatie" is the only one of ya'll that seemed to understand the question lol. Just wanted to know if the boat was capable and he says yes 🤷*♂️

That being said I'll look more into what your saying about the rig being gripe prone.
I've single handed this boat before tho and it handled fine. But that was pretty easy conditions tho, only 10 knots of wind down satellite channel so hardly a good test. Still it sailed fine single handed.

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Hobo,

Well, I thought it was time for some alternate "facts" to be presented.

From 1976 until 1983 I owned and sailed a Yankee 30 Mk 3 named Dominique. I was based in SF Bay and was a pretty active sailor. The Y-30 is another S&S design from the same era, pretty similar in most respects to your boat, ie a modest racer/cruiser built by a respected yard.

During those years I daysailed with friends, raced with crew in the bay, did several cruises to the Channel Islands, once with a 14 and a `12 year old boy for crew. I also was heavily into single hand ocean racing in the Gulf of Farallones, with season championships in 4 of the 8 in which I competed. Then in 1983 Ann (JPA Cate here on CF) and I did a fast round trip to Hawaii (a bit over 6 weeks total time). During the outbound passage we weathered tropical storm Gil, during which we had our best ever day's run of 168 miles under storm jib alone. We were not concerned for our safety at any time. That boat would sail herself indefinitely with helm free, or a bit better with it lashed, anywhere from close hauled to near beam reaching. An Autohelm 2000 tiller pilot would steer her well, even with a big kite up. And when that bloody thing died a few days out of Kauai I rigged a sheet to tiller system that got us the remaining 1500+ miles of mostly broad reaching back to SF. (Hardly the unstable vessel that others seem to see).

I think this record should indicate that one can indeed successfully sail offshore in such boats despite the opinions of many expressed upthread. The Hawaii trip did show us that despite her sterling sailing characteristics, as an offshore cruiser she had a drawback: she liked to sail at 20+ degrees of heel, and we found that for us, this was a big fatigue factor. Not an issue coastal cruising where one usually stops for a rest every few days, but definitely one on longer passages... and when we set out a few years later for an open ended cruise into the Pacific it was in a somewhat larger and stiffer boat.

I forgot to mention that all the above was done without any furlers or self tailing winches, no windlass, celestial nav and only a 12 channel VHF for communications.

In short, unless there is some unseen by me difference in the basic designs, I think your boat will serve your plans pretty well.

Good luck!

Jim

Hey Jim thanks for sharing that! It's nice to hear a first hand account of someone doing it
The 20ish degree angle of my decks makes so much more sense now 😂 I thought they were a little too steep but it will probably be just right at sea

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Hobosailor

Have you ever actually been ON a northstar 1000? It's roomy af inside. More so than my friends 36 foot.
What exactly do you consider wrong about the hull dhape, or the rig. The decks are actually made to be flat when your heeled over. And the cockpit, ya that I don't like either. It's annoying.

Considering your "infinite knowledge" and apparently budget too, what do YOU sail?
You suggest just buying a new boat but some of us don't have that luxury.

No, never been on one, but I've been on a few of the old 1/2Ton class boats.
You know they were built to a rule, and because of that there were not all that many differences between them, (unless/until the rule was changed).
As such, most of them are kind of like what Chief Inspector Clouseau said.
"If you've seen one Stradivarius you've seen them all"
The rules taxed mainsails, so you see the tiny high aspect mains and really large headsails relative to boat size, not the greatest combo for a cruiser, but you can get creative with the rig/sails I guess.
Hull shape? Actually not bad, but you need to keep in mind that it and many similar boats were optimized for sailing between hard-on-the-wind to a fairly close reach, why? because that's how you win races on a triangular course.
Pushed hard downwind they can get squirrely, close attention to helm desired.
The deck? you'll be heeled over a lot, so you'll need that heavily cambered deck, but in the big majority of time you spend at anchor such decks are a pain in the a**.
"Infinite knowledge"? Don't patronize me, but after more than 50 years in the marine trades and boating/sailing I've learned a thing or three about them.
Budget? Give it a break, and I NEVER said to buy a new boat, I DID suggest that some other boat would/might be more suitable for what you want to do.
Go back and read your own opening post.
You made it sound like you didn't yet own that boat, and you DID ask if you should look for a different boat.
My boat? Read my by-lines, (or whatever they call the stuff under your name).