Permanent U.S. Phone Number for Two Factor Authentication

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Though keep in mind that despite having setup an authenticator app or a security key, or the latest-greatest passkey, some services will still require a code to be sent to your phone via SMS at some point. That happened to me with my main Google account once. I had set up every alternative authentication method but Google in its infinite wisdom would not let me use any of the methods except for receiving a code sent to my phone number, which I had recently changed. The problem was they would only send codes to my old number that I no longer controlled, even though I had previously changed to the new number on my account. Similarly, when locked out of my bank, an investment account, and others, the only option was to receive a code sent to my phone, even though I had other options set up. Plus, don't fully trust their instructions, no matter how important an account. Often they are out of date and useless when you hit some unusual situation. In any case, for me, I will always try to keep and maintain a USA phone number that can be reached even if I am outside of the country.

Indeed, and I do maintain that SkypeIn number for this very reason.

But I think the handwriting is on the wall for this old-fashioned way to do 2FA. My European banks have actually NEVER done 2FA with text or phone calls. Originally I used a keypad code device, and I still have a couple of those. Then, they started accepting your national ID in a card adapter. Now it works with with what they call "Smart ID", which is an authentication app on my phone.

U.S. banks are not usually more than 10 years behind European ones, so I expect we'll see that sooner rather than later.

I recently had to open a bank account in, of all places, Kazakhstan. You won't believe this, but KZ is ahead of BOTH the U.S. and Europe (except maybe Estonia), with a fully digitized government. There is a single unified government office called "center for servicing the population" where you can do just about any kind of interaction with the state which you for some reason elect to not do online. You register there and get your own public key code on a flash drive; it takes about 5 minutes. Once you have this code, you can do absolutely anything having to do with the government online. You use this code to access your online banking. No texts or calls. It was an odd place to encounter the future.

[Kettlewell]

But I think the handwriting is on the wall for this old-fashioned way to do 2FA. My European banks have actually NEVER done 2FA with text or phone calls.

Maybe so, but I won't hold my breath! A huge friction against this sort of progress in the USA is the fact that all 50 states have different rules and regulations, in addition to the federal regs. that apply. Plus add in all the regional differences in attitudes and norms. For example, if you travel to New England and get off the beaten track just a little bit you'd better have cash with you for many things. Still lots of places that don't take credit cards, and many that do have primitive machines that won't take phone payments. For that matter, I've given up trying to use my phone even at places that supposedly take phone payments--fails about 75% of the time.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Maybe so, but I won't hold my breath! A huge friction against this sort of progress in the USA is the fact that all 50 states have different rules and regulations, in addition to the federal regs. that apply. Plus add in all the regional differences in attitudes and norms. For example, if you travel to New England and get off the beaten track just a little bit you'd better have cash with you for many things. Still lots of places that don't take credit cards, and many that do have primitive machines that won't take phone payments. For that matter, I've given up trying to use my phone even at places that supposedly take phone payments--fails about 75% of the time.

Hmm.

In Kazakhstan, cash is almost non-existent. You rarely see credit cards. Everyone pays for everything with their phones. In dozens of trips there in the last couple of years I've never visited an ATM; I don't even know what their banknotes look like.

They have a weird payment method I've never seen before -- a bill (paperless of course) is issued with a QR code. You scan the QR code from your bank app, authorize bio-metrically (with a fingerprint), and an instant bank transfer is done. No credit card account involved.


This is cool because it removes Visa etc. from the payment chain, and the associated costs. Bank transfers inside the country are instantaneous and free, like in Europe. They also use IBAN numbers, like in Europe. But they're even one step ahead with this QR code system.

[Kettlewell]

In Kazakhstan, cash is almost non-existent. You rarely see credit cards. Everyone pays for everything with their phones. In dozens of trips there in the last couple of years I've never visited an ATM; I don't even know what their banknotes look like.

Not in the USA! Plus, lots of important things require payment with a paper check you have to hand write out and either deliver or mail through snail mail. Until this year I had to pay my boatyard bill by check, for example.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Not in the USA! Plus, lots of important things require payment with a paper check you have to hand write out and either deliver or mail through snail mail. Until this year I had to pay my boatyard bill by check, for example.

Paper check? Are you kidding? That's my grandparents' generation's technology. I haven't written a check in more than 30 years. Is there still whale oil lighting back home?

[Foswick]

I don't think we even have checks. Maybe in a drawer somewhere. I used to manage a staff of millenials and Gen Zers and out of about a half-dozen in the office at the time could not confidently explain why it is called a "checking account". The prevailing hypothesis was that you put money in your savings account to forget about it, but that you frequently check the balance of your checking account.

Most of them could explain why it is called "dialing" a phone, though.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Hmm.

In Kazakhstan, cash is almost non-existent. You rarely see credit cards. Everyone pays for everything with their phones. In dozens of trips there in the last couple of years I've never visited an ATM; I don't even know what their banknotes look like.

They have a weird payment method I've never seen before -- a bill (paperless of course) is issued with a QR code. You scan the QR code from your bank app, authorize bio-metrically (with a fingerprint), and an instant bank transfer is done. No credit card account involved.

This is cool because it removes Visa etc. from the payment chain, and the associated costs. Bank transfers inside the country are instantaneous and free, like in Europe. They also use IBAN numbers, like in Europe. But they're even one step ahead with this QR code system.

This isn’t cool at all because banks and governments get to decide if you are allowed to make that payment or not. George Orwell. Examples: you already bought your monthly allowance of diesel fuel, meat, water etc. Or: you participated in an anti government protest and your payments have been blocked (Canada already did that).

[ohgary]

Originally Posted by briblack

we use Google Fi, this is one of the main reasons . . .

Google fi supports and encourages VOIP use over WIFI, That combined with a VPN to put your wifi state side gives you the same number regardless of where you are.

The Pixel phone line has Esims and a sim slot so use your "US" number on FI then move to Eims when you need a local number.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This isn’t cool at all because banks and governments get to decide if you are allowed to make that payment or not. George Orwell. Examples: you already bought your monthly allowance of diesel fuel, meat, water etc. Or: you participated in an anti government protest and your payments have been blocked (Canada already did that).

Digitization of government is, of course, a double edged sword. It makes social control much easier. It's just a short step to a dystopian social credit system like in China.


Meanwhile, however, it works much better, so at least in the short term it brings benefits. It makes the government that much more efficient, which means it is less of a hassle to deal with, but on the other hand -- it makes the government more efficient, something we don't necessarily want in the big picture.


Yes, the Canadian truckers thing was Orwellian. But PayPal have been doing the same thing to those propagating "disfavored narratives", right at home in the U.S. The brave new world is upon us.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Digitization of government is, of course, a double edged sword. It makes social control much easier. It's just a short step to a dystopian social credit system like in China.

Meanwhile, however, it works much better, so at least in the short term it brings benefits. It makes the government that much more efficient, which means it is less of a hassle to deal with, but on the other hand -- it makes the government more efficient, something we don't necessarily want in the big picture.

Yes, the Canadian truckers thing was Orwellian. But PayPal have been doing the same thing to those propagating "disfavored narratives", right at home in the U.S. The brave new world is upon us.

When the government requires digital transfer of tax payments in order to be more efficient, I could see a case where I could agree as an exception.

But requiring digital payments and allowing public shops to refuse cash payments or even demanding they stop accepting cash equals tyranny. This is what Bitcoin was designed to battle and I believe it does battle it because without bitcoin they would already have attempted this. Now the people can still switch to the cryptocurrency when they see the need.

[Kettlewell]

Datapoint. Around where I live you need cash at many small ice cream shops, which of course means I carry cash with me at all times!