Picking the brain of seasoned sailors

[GavinGonsalves]

Good day all,
I seeking some advice from some seasoned sailors, but first some background on myself. I am a union carpenter (relevancy: work that may have to be done to a boat), I am based in Ottawa Canada and I would like to sail from Canada to Trinidad & Tobago late this fall early winter, I would like to add this will be my first solo journey. My plan is to follow the coast of the US then cross over to the Bahamas and island hop to Trinidad. I anticipate the trip will take around 2 months +, in the process starting a youtube channel to document the journey. Now on to the picking of seasoned sailors brains.
I am currently looking for boats under 30 feet, and I am wondering the following;
1. Any advice on a boat I should be looking at?
2. Is $6000-$7000 too small of a budget for an under 30 foot boat?
3. Is comfort ratio, etc relevant?
4. Any advice regarding a cost I should be skeptical of, although I know I may have to install certain things like AIS, auto pilot etc?
5. Any advice of places to visit along the way as I have never made this journey?
6. Any advice for a first time solo sailor?

I apologize in advance if this thread or questions seem mundane. I welcome any feedback and thank you all for your time.

Gavin

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by GavinGonsalves

Good day all,
I seeking some advice from some seasoned sailors, but first some background on myself. I am a union carpenter (relevancy: work that may have to be done to a boat), I am based in Ottawa Canada and I would like to sail from Canada to Trinidad & Tobago late this fall early winter, I would like to add this will be my first solo journey. My plan is to follow the coast of the US then cross over to the Bahamas and island hop to Trinidad. I anticipate the trip will take around 2 months +, in the process starting a youtube channel to document the journey. Now on to the picking of seasoned sailors brains.
I am currently looking for boats under 30 feet, and I am wondering the following;
1. Any advice on a boat I should be looking at?Under 30 feet is a very small boat. It will be cramped, but the trip is doable

2. Is $6000-$7000 too small of a budget for an under 30 foot boat?I suspect you will end up having to pay more for a well-founded boat. But sometimes bargins do exist

3. Is comfort ratio, etc relevant?yes

4. Any advice regarding a cost I should be skeptical of, although I know I may have to install certain things like AIS, auto pilot etc?any boat you buy in that cost range will need a number of upgrades, sails, engine, electronics. Could be very costly, make sure you survey the boat/engine completely before buying
5. Any advice of places to visit along the way as I have never made this journey?Late fall early winter is a horrible time for the journey. If you try to go outside, then you will be battling the Gulf Stream the entire way. Not a good idea. Instead, jump into the ICW and run that all the way to florida then cross to the Bahamas. South of the Bahamas you will run into the Christmas winds, which will mean running close hauled against 25-30 knot winds and 2-3 meter high swells for something like 7-10 days.
That is tough work and since you intend to be solo, you have to consider if you are competent to do this. This is not an easy trip. I've done it in a 40 footer, double-handed and while we made it, we were not happy campers. From the Turks and Caicos, you will basically be off-shore - no bail-out.
When we did it we ran into really heavy weather, 40+knots, 4meter (14 feet) swells with a short period. you will also.
6. Any advice for a first time solo sailor?Look to see if you can find a boat for sale in the Caribbean instead of making the trip from Canada

I apologize in advance if this thread or questions seem mundane. I welcome any feedback and thank you all for your time.

Gavin

Gavin - if I sound negative it is because you need to investigate a lot of things before you attempt this. You don't tell how much sailing experience you have, just that this is your first solo. Do you truly understand the weather patterns you will be sailing into? While going outside coming down the east coast of the US is doable, there are many issues involved (not the least of which is Cape Hatteras).

But if you decide to try - good luck

[Hudson Force]

I believe you can have a wonderful and successful adventure if you dismiss the requirement of having any expectation of a cost, time schedule or destination.

[Scubaseas]

PM sent. I agree mostly with what carsetnb said but coming down the East Coast can be fun and certainly educational for what you're thinking of doing. If single handing under 40' is easier but 30' and under gets small fast as living aboard goes. Your price point will be your biggest limiting factor. There are some exceptional deals out there though.

I completely agree with Hudson Force. Sail to the weather, never a schedule. Stop and smell the roses.

[more]

Originally Posted by GavinGonsalves

union carpenter
1. Any advice on a boat I should be looking at?
2. Is $6000-$7000 too small of a budget for an under 30 foot boat?

Gavin

do you know 6-7000$ taking bad carpenter for make sprayhood and bimini.
look here buy some walking foot sewing machine and make 10-20 sprayhood and bimini and gain 100000 $ and buy good boat, or make 10 interior bed,carpenter stuf and buy new catamaran 45-50 ft
https://www.toldosonline.eu/
PS my neighbour boat hanse 505 owner from canada order new bimini,sprayhood 9000€ and new realy good 4 matresse 6500€ this is not superespensive matrass midle class.i before burn,donate Trump 6500€ ws give some carpenter this money for piece spunge and some textile. more funny this carpenter hire staff from nepal and give this poor guy 3-4€ per hour

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by GavinGonsalves

Good day all,
I seeking some advice from some seasoned sailors, but first some background on myself. I am a union carpenter (relevancy: work that may have to be done to a boat), I am based in Ottawa Canada and I would like to sail from Canada to Trinidad & Tobago late this fall early winter, I would like to add this will be my first solo journey. My plan is to follow the coast of the US then cross over to the Bahamas and island hop to Trinidad.

You may find that sailing from Canada to Bermuda, and from Bermuda to, say, Barbados, is a more realistic plan. You could perhaps hire a delivery captain to join you until you reach the Caribbean.

Due to prevailing winds, it is difficult (unrealistic) to sail from the Bahamas to Trinidad. There's a book called the "A Gentleman's Guide to Passages South: The Thornless Path to Windward" that covers the reasons in detail and provides strategies to use should you decide to make the trip.

1. Any advice on a boat I should be looking at?

Look in the 37' foot range.

2. Is $6000-$7000 too small of a budget for an under 30 foot boat?

Yes. The costs for a well-found boat are similar between 30' and 37' because a 30' boat has all the same systems that a 37' boat does. Think in terms of a $60,000 minimum including back maintenance.


$7000 will get you an early 1980s boat, with an outboard motor, in the 25' range, that needs work.

3. Is comfort ratio, etc relevant?

Probably not. Larger will do more for comfort than hull shape.

4. Any advice regarding a cost I should be skeptical of, although I know I may have to install certain things like AIS, auto pilot etc?

On a tight budget you will not be able to afford AIS. At 30' you may be able to use a tiller pilot which are under $1000.

The things you should care about most are: Engine, sails, bottom paint, standing rigging, running rigging (including blocks and winches), rudder and steering, and bimini/dodger.


Older boats will have deck leaks and plumbing problems, those take more time than money.


The only electronics you absolutely must have are a depth finder, some sort of VHF radio, and some sort of GPS. Cheap handheld GPS are good enough, especially in conjunction with a smart phone. Cheap handheld VHF are better than nothing. Radar is more important than AIS.

6. Any advice for a first time solo sailor?

Sail locally as much as you can on as many boats as you can.

[TrentePieds]

Gavin:

Keep uppermost in your mind all that Carsten and Jammer said!

Then consider this:

Many voyages have been made by people in SMALL simply fitted, even primitive boats. The success of such voyages is due not to the qualities of the boat, but to the competence of the sailor. Tell us why you think you have the competence to be alone at sea in a cockleshell?

Being a carpenter has no relevance whatever to what you wish to do. Any boat you can get for the money you propose to spend will be a fibreglass hull for which repairs and maintenance relies on skills not usually possessed by a carpenter.

TrentePieds is, as her name suggests, a small boat at 30 feet length overall. She is capable of going anywhere, though I, myself, may no longer be. A sistership was sailed from Vancouver, where she was built, to New Zealand where, AFAIK, she still is, and that boat was sailed there by a couple. Moral: TWO competent people can voyage across wast oceans in "tiny" boats.

TrentePieds cruises the Gulf Islands between the B.C. Mainland and Vancouver Islands. We bought her because, contrary to the impression you will get from many, many contributions to CF, she is big enough, as are all 30-footers, to accommodate two people in comfort for many weeks at a time, even several months. She is also big enough to carry two people's clobber, PROVIDED the people are sailors content to cope with the material and emotional constraints imposed by what I call "f'o'c'sl living".

So my counsel to you would be: Do not be inveigled by magazines, books or any other promotional material into conspicuous consumption. You do NOT need a plethora of “comforts” and “aids” to get the job done! You do need to be clear-eyed about the fact that an OCEAN PASSAGE in a small boat is bloody hard work and very uncomfortable. Just a p[iece of work that has to be done to get you to where you want to go.

Now a word on costs: As a handy rule of thumb, you can consider that the cost of OWNING a boat (as apart from the acquisition costs) goes up by the third power of increases in waterline length. That's because boats are three-dimensional things. TP is 25 LWL. A boat typically considered “necessary” for what you want to do might be 36' LWL. 36 = 25 x 1.5 near enuff. So the cost of keeping the bigger boat will be 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 3.375 times — call it three times — the cost of keeping a boat like TP.

I maintain a “sinking fund”, a special bank account, into which I put $1,000 a month. It doesn't all get spent every month, but over the long haul, believe me, it DOES get spent. A new suit of sails for a 30-footer would cost about $20K! A replacement engine for a 30-footer, also 20 grand. Unless you can do the re'n're youself. Then 12 grand. Again, as a rule of thumb, the four hundred bux a month you won't spend for moorage while you are at sea is probably even-steven with the additional maintenance costs imposed by the additional strain on the gear caused by hard sailing.

All the best

TrentePieds

[Jebtrois]

Take a look at the 1975 Bristol 27 just posted by Canvasman. I don't have any connection. This looks to meet most of your requirements albeit at a higher budget.

[Statistical]

2. Is $6000-$7000 too small of a budget for an under 30 foot boat?

Probably. To be clear you can find a boat for <$7k. You might even find a boat for $1. It is very unlikely you will find a boat well equipped for long distance crusing for $7k. The cost of the boat, any repairs, and upgrades to make is suitable for long distance cruising is very likely to be significantly more than $7k probably closer to $30k although $20k might be doable if you find a diamond in the rough.

I would also say the plan of zero experience find a boat sail it long distance is pretty typical and rarely successful. How about just buy a boat and sail it locally. Learn how to operate and maintain the system and improve your sailing skills. Keep your day job for now.

One thing most people find when they get a boat is there are hundreds of things to learn most of which have nothing to do with sailing. Things as simple as how do you pump out the black water tank without getting **** on yourself or your boat to troubleshooting DC electrical systems to replacing leaking hoses to engine maintenance to troubleshoot bad engine performance to how to get off the dock in a strong wind (even more challenging solo). A boat isn't one thing it is dozens of separate and sometimes interconnected systems. Just learning how to operate and maintain the boat completely ignoring the sails and associated sailing hardware is a lot starting out. Throw in VHF usage, navigation, how to follow navigation markers, read a chart, follow wind forecasts, passport control, customs, how to properly anchor, etc.

[dlj]

I've always considered 30 feet to be the cut-off for long distance cruising. Sure folks have done it a lot smaller boat - for example Julio Villar who did a circumnavigation in a 23 foot boat (7 meters) - solo - starting in 1968 - no motor, no money, no sailing experience.... Then there are those that do it in row boats, more...

But storage for food, water, fuel, spare parts and more just becomes very difficult in smaller than a 30 foot boat. Of course that's for long distance cruising. If you are going to coastal cruise for most of that trip then that doesn't matter so much.

As others have mentioned, you haven't stated what kind of sailing experience, or climbing or camping or generally roughing it outside of our current cultural lifestyle, you have. Those things make a difference.

I'd say your price range is quite low in this day and age to get a boat in halfway decent condition for this trip. So unless you are heading off-shore where you may not need a motor, doing the ICW you will need a motor. And you'll want a reliable motor.

You've gotten lots of good advice above. Here's a link to a book you should read:

https://www.sfbaysss.org/resource/do...irdEdition.pdf

dj

[Jim Woodall]

Three Things:

1) If your boat is ICW friendly (mine is not) do as an earlier post suggested and take it to Florida. Lake Worth is as good a jumping off point as many of the inlets farther south (weather dependent).

2) Time your departure out of the Bahamas carefully. Do it during the period the Christmas winds have dissipated. The passage from the Bahamas to roughly Antigua/Guadeloupe will be difficult and can be downright brutal. The word “tired” and the term “sleep deprived” will gain whole new meanings. Plan and study your intended route carefully and use a good weather router. Remember sea state (current, swell, and waves) are just as important as the wind’s direction and speed.

3) The passage from the Turks and Caicos, across the northern coast of the DR, to the Virgins will rattle your teeth.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by dlj

I've always considered 30 feet to be the cut-off for long distance cruising. Sure folks have done it a lot smaller boat - for example Julio Villar who did a circumnavigation in a 23 foot boat (7 meters) - solo - starting in 1968 - no motor, no money, no sailing experience.... Then there are those that do it in row boats, more...

But storage for food, water, fuel, spare parts and more just becomes very difficult in smaller than a 30 foot boat. Of course that's for long distance cruising. If you are going to coastal cruise for most of that trip then that doesn't matter so much.

The greater problem is that smaller boats are overall less capable. They're slower, they do not handle the waves as well, they do not handle high winds as well, overall they do not sail as well because the ratio of windage to sail area is worse.


The only real advantage of 30' over 37' is that it is easier to do stuff by main force rather than finesse, should that be necessary.


Going from 30' to 25', you get the cost advantages inherent in being able to trailer the boat and in using outboard rather than inboard propulsion. But an outboard isn't suitable for the OP's travels.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The greater problem is that smaller boats are overall less capable. They're slower, they do not handle the waves as well, they do not handle high winds as well, overall they do not sail as well because the ratio of windage to sail area is worse.


The only real advantage of 30' over 37' is that it is easier to do stuff by main force rather than finesse, should that be necessary.


Going from 30' to 25', you get the cost advantages inherent in being able to trailer the boat and in using outboard rather than inboard propulsion. But an outboard isn't suitable for the OP's travels.

I don't know that I agree the greater problem is less capable. The Pardey's first boat was 24 feet, their second boat was 28 feet. I think they were both VERY capable boats...

dj

[deblen]

Are you talking 6-7000 Cdn $$?
That is only (60%) $3600-4200USD purchasing power.
or multiply the $US cost of something by 1.5 to get landed cost in $Cdn.


Also,your "travel & maintenance" costs,once you leave Canada,will be in $US equivalent.
Health insurance??


I truly wish you the best-but double check everything before u leave.


Cheers/Len

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The greater problem is that smaller boats are overall less capable. They're slower, they do not handle the waves as well, they do not handle high winds as well, overall they do not sail as well because the ratio of windage to sail area is worse.

Some smaller boats that are built for it handle the waves just fine, and are very capable.

Bristol 27 - circumnavigated

Contessa 26 - circumnavigated

Nor'Sea 27

and so on.

Plus when the wind is high, they are lower in the water and can lower sail even more.

Unless he get a big and heavy boat, the comfort ratio might be better on a smaller boat depending on the type boat he gets.

But if you have to ask which boat to get for $6-7,000, you are probably not prepared to sail it far offshore.

This Bristol 27 crossed 3 oceans and was purchased for $1,000.

https://svcrystalblues.blogspot.com/...ne-around.html

I bought mine for $2,000 in 2011. Photos below.

Just the new sails I have purchased for it during that time cost $4,000.

New dodger and mainsail cover $1500.

Autopilots 3X. About $1500

Outboard after diesel failed $1600

Solar and controllers: $400-$500

Outboard Brackets 2X. $500

Inverters. $200.

Homemade Chart Plotter: Computers, adapters, SHVHF with GPS/AIS, GPS Dongles: $500-$600

and it goes from there. Painted entire boat a few times. Bottom 4X which includes haul outs, storage fee and $250/gallon paint