Politics. Or Not please

[TrentePieds]

Quoting rallyman1122: “Lately I have noticed a trend on CF that many threads turn into little flame wars about politics or there are snide comments about people’s beliefs, attitudes or political positions.”

The remedy you, and all members, have against this particular “problem” is found in the RULES to which all members subscribe at the time of signing up for CF. I quote: “ Discussions about politics, weaponry and religion are permitted only in association with the topic of this forum and will be closed or removed if they become disruptive.” and “We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness.”

Should you find a post that transgresses against either of these rules, or any other rule, then please report it, formally, to the moderators by clicking on the “button” in the lower left corner of the post that is shaped like a triangle and has a red border with an exclamation mark within it.

We moderators are volunteers, and spend a lot of time working for the good or the forum and its members. It is a physical impossibility for any one of us to read EVERY post precautionarily. We must therefore rely on the membership to report for our attention any breach of rules that we, ourselves, have not seen.

TrentePieds

[powsmias]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This thread will be closed quickly, but I think there is a broader question that I would love to discuss here.

It is a fact that many threads segue off into non-cruising discussions. Many of these veer into political areas. And the fact is, this forum is dominated by Americans. So, it’s natural American politics will rise to the top.

Forums are a reflection of real life. As with real life, discussions may start on one point, but will naturally flow into other areas, including (at times) politics.

People come here because they are cruisers, or have an interest in cruising. But that is not ALL that we are as people. We create community here, and naturally want to discuss topics with the people we call acquaintances, if not friends.

I find the hard line CF sometimes takes on quashing other discussions distasteful and unfortunate. And in the case of difficult discussions, I think it actually leads to more conflict b/c it doesn’t allow the community to moderate itself.

good call mister

[Lake-Effect]

The mods have the power to set and enforce whatever tone they prefer here.


"Be nice" (eg no personal attacks or insults) is apparently the guiding principle. Which often means that people get to say some wacky stuff, and/or attack groups, institutions, beliefs... as long as they're "nice" about it.

Personally speaking, I don't find much "nice" about such polarizing threads, especially when it's not even boating/cruising related. The internet is thick with fora where people can argue about anything, with whatever level of vitriol they prefer. Why must CF become yet another platform for non-boating, hot-button political topics?

CF should stick to cruising/boating/sailing - the topics that, despite our different politics, are what unites us. That would truly be nice. Just my 2 cents.

[John_Trusty]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

We create community here, and naturally want to discuss topics with the people we call acquaintances, if not friends.

I find the hard line CF sometimes takes on quashing other discussions distasteful and unfortunate. And in the case of difficult discussions, I think it actually leads to more conflict b/c it doesn’t allow the community to moderate itself.

While I admire the intent of your post, I believe that you may be wishful thinking because of the anonymity of the internet. If we were sitting around the cockpit of your boat one evening and a sensitive topic came up that we had opposing viewpoints on, we could tell by tone and body language that it was not fully accepted. I know we have all become accustomed to watching for these signs in a polarized world, and moderating our tone in situations where we did not know how the other folks voted, pray, etc. On here, it's just not possible, so I support the "vacation from conflict" that the moderators impose. If I want an argument, I'll go down the hall where Mr. Cleese is selling them for 2 pounds for 5 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkQhK8O9Jik

One of the things that makes these types of discussions particularly touchy on-line is the lack of humility and consideration of other's views. That's just the sort of thing that I come to CF for. I may be a complete novice, but I've never had an arrogant person here berate me for my question or viewpoint. Some of you have more miles under your keel than I've flown over, but treat me with compassion and kindness. If you could get that in a political forum, I'd subscribe.

[CaptRory]

There is a lot in the cruising life style that is political in nature. May I discuss the degradation of the Gulf of Mexico that I have been a witness to over 30 years of living on it? (Treehugging Libertard!) May I discuss anchoring rights? (Radical anarchist!) These issues will lead many straight to party lines and turn them in name calling slammers as in "I attack it viciously" sorts that don't feel you have anything to contribute. The key is common curtesy which some will forget. Some will make it "a war" because they enjoy the fight rather than coming to consensus on a issue. If one wishes to change another's position on an issue they must be convincing in their case, not go on the attack, and any sincere person knows that. I would hope that people that just want to fight will do it somewhere else, but political issues are a large part of our lives. Just not talking about anything that might lead there is not the answer either. Those of us who appreciate intelligent discourse need to lead the way, not crawl in a hole.

[roland stockham]

Hi. I completely agree about the flame wars but not with your solution! I have an academic background in social science and am quite active politically. One of the things I find very interesting about cruising is the chance to see, first hand, how other people live and how their societies work. On occasion I have added a socio-political comment to threads and sometimes got some pretty vocal comments back... That's fine.
The reason behind the old adadage not to discuss religion or politics onboard is down to people finding it difficult to discuss these topics respectfully which is a pity as they are important and should concern all of us.

I for one would find it interesting to be able to discuss these issues with other cruisers. We do, after all, get to see a lot more of the world than most people.
So my suggestion would be to open a new forum dedicated to those topics rather than try to suppress them. What does anyone else think? Obviously would want the rules of respectful discussion applied otherwise it would simply degenerate into a place to rant.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This thread will be closed quickly, but I think there is a broader question that I would love to discuss here.

It is a fact that many threads segue off into non-cruising discussions. Many of these veer into political areas. And the fact is, this forum is dominated by Americans. So, it’s natural American politics will rise to the top.

Forums are a reflection of real life. As with real life, discussions may start on one point, but will naturally flow into other areas, including (at times) politics.

People come here because they are cruisers, or have an interest in cruising. But that is not ALL that we are as people. We create community here, and naturally want to discuss topics with the people we call acquaintances, if not friends.

I find the hard line CF sometimes takes on quashing other discussions distasteful and unfortunate. And in the case of difficult discussions, I think it actually leads to more conflict b/c it doesn’t allow the community to moderate itself.

Well said. I would add that cruising, particularly international cruising, does not happen in a vacuum, least of all a political vacuum, and political considerations, ranging from visa requirements and Schengen-area time limits to my consumption of (theoretically) Cuban rum and legal marijuana on my Canadian-registered vessel in international waters have political dimensions at the 13-mile mark should the USCG be feeling motivated on a given day.

Bubbles, as any wave watcher can attest, are transparent. You can see in them as well as you can see out.

[Sand crab]

I protest bringing in anchors into this discussion. Everyone knows that only libtards like Rocna and dotards like Mantus so this point is settled.

[iyamwhatiyam]

Blame Canada!

[iyamwhatiyam]

It's not even a real country anyway

[atlroofman]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quoting rallyman1122: “Lately I have noticed a trend on CF that many threads turn into little flame wars about politics or there are snide comments about people’s beliefs, attitudes or political positions.”

The remedy you, and all members, have against this particular “problem” is found in the RULES to which all members subscribe at the time of signing up for CF. I quote: “ Discussions about politics, weaponry and religion are permitted only in association with the topic of this forum and will be closed or removed if they become disruptive.” and “We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness.”

Should you find a post that transgresses against either of these rules, or any other rule, then please report it, formally, to the moderators by clicking on the “button” in the lower left corner of the post that is shaped like a triangle and has a red border with an exclamation mark within it.

We moderators are volunteers, and spend a lot of time working for the good or the forum and its members. It is a physical impossibility for any one of us to read EVERY post precautionarily. We must therefore rely on the membership to report for our attention any breach of rules that we, ourselves, have not seen.

TrentePieds

BINGO
If the politics affect a subject being discussed then a comment on the politics is appropriate as to how it affects the cruising subject being discussed. Although when politics are brought up inappropraitly it is hard for me not to respond. But I will refrain from doing so as doing so extends the inappropriate part of the discussion. We all should.

[AiniA]

I may have posted this before - or it could have been elsewhere. My father was career Canadian army from WW I through WW II. He said that in the sergeants' mess there were three forbidden topics: sex, religion, and politics. I asked him what they talked about, he said the weather. I guess they didn't own boats.

I genuinely feel sorry for Americans these days. Their politics, and even more so their society, has become so polarized it is often hard for them to put politics aside when discussing boats.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This thread will be closed quickly, but I think there is a broader question that I would love to discuss here.

It is a fact that many threads segue off into non-cruising discussions. Many of these veer into political areas. And the fact is, this forum is dominated by Americans. So, it’s natural American politics will rise to the top.

Forums are a reflection of real life. As with real life, discussions may start on one point, but will naturally flow into other areas, including (at times) politics.

People come here because they are cruisers, or have an interest in cruising. But that is not ALL that we are as people. We create community here, and naturally want to discuss topics with the people we call acquaintances, if not friends.

I find the hard line CF sometimes takes on quashing other discussions distasteful and unfortunate. And in the case of difficult discussions, I think it actually leads to more conflict b/c it doesn’t allow the community to moderate itself.

Hard to say if moderation leads to more conflict or not. Some of the more recent CC and other "political" threads do seem to have toned it down a bit, but maybe that's mainly due to mod warnings & the threats of thread closures?

"We create community here, and naturally want to discuss topics with the people we call acquaintances, if not friends."

I think there's a lot of truth to this. Given our shared hobby/passion/sport, there's a sense of camaraderie and that we may actually like each other if we met in person. But the reality is that, as politics has gotten increasingly polarized (not just in the US but it is bad here), it's become increasingly difficult to initiate discussion or, god forbid, actually find middle ground in face-to-face contact. I think the middle ground is all too obvious in most cases, but the politics have been become too emotionally charged for many to explore it. So maybe it's a natural desire to seek it out in an internet forum where the audience already has something in common. The downside, of course, is that the anonymity of the internet encourages a lack of civility as has already been pointed out.

I agree with the OP to the extent that politics shouldn't be injected into threads discussing apolitical topics (the vast majority), especially when they obviously violate the "be nice" rule. As for the few threads that will obviously have a political bent from the get-go, the ultimate self-moderation is obviously not to join in or even read. What I find odd are people who choose to join a thread but are then intolerant about the opinions being espoused. So long as those opinions are expressed respectfully and don't violate forum rules, then it's just a healthy exchange of different ideas & viewpoints that otherwise seems to be increasingly lacking in our face-to-face contact these days.

There's an often missed distinction between how such opinions are presented and the content or merits of the opinions themselves. A contrary opinion expressed politely, even if forcefully, is read by another as a personal insult if not a threat. This trend towards personalization of political issues only leads to false stereotyping and perpetuates an overly simplistic "us v. them" mentality that increases intolerance. It is possible, of course, to be tolerant of someone else's views but also disagree with them! But maybe not when emotions & feelings override reason, a deliberative process which depends on healthy if not strident discussion & debate.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

So my suggestion would be to open a new forum dedicated to those topics rather than try to suppress them. What does anyone else think? Obviously would want the rules of respectful discussion applied otherwise it would simply degenerate into a place to rant.

There are I’m sure dozens, likely at least hundreds of pre existing forums that talk politics.
For you or anyone else that desires to discuss politics, I don’t think you need to start your own, just go to one of the already existing ones.

However this is a Cruising forum, and while things do often drift away from cruising, especially once the topic has been well discussed, it’s not a political forum.
Anything that causes dissection in the ranks if you will is heavily discouraged, and politics, religion, weaponry etc often do and as such those threads are usually short lived.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by AiniA

I may have posted this before - or it could have been elsewhere. My father was career Canadian army from WW I through WW II. He said that in the sergeants' mess there were three forbidden topics: sex, religion, and politics. I asked him what they talked about, he said the weather. I guess they didn't own boats.

I could see forbidding topics surrounding religion & politics, but sex??? Seems rather odd if not unnatural for the sergeant's mess!