Question re: guns on board in Bahamas

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Hoosierdoc

Not very. But it’s a phenomenal deterrent. Are you going to keep doing what you want when someone is shooting at you repeatedly? Or are you going to surrender immediately?

I can drop 33 rounds from my semi-auto in about 10 seconds. Pretty sure i’ll Be on target with a few of those.

How about a crossbow?

Guns aren’t just to hit people with bullets. They’re more often used to change someone’s behavior.

I’d add a bunch of smilie faces but i’m Trying to have an honest discussion not make mocking retorts.

Not a mocking retort.. just repelicating my expression in real life to a serious question.. your 33/10secs could likely be to late as the 33 x 3 or 4 from them are as you say pretty sure to have a few on target.. I dont mention crossbows as unless they are Rambo style exploding ones they are as you say useless.
So it boils back down to who fires first and if you get it right on a dark night.. and are not blown away by an SBS or similar vessel responding to armed aggression.
Had a few of those in my time from Spanish, Turkish, Italian and Brit to name a few.. not to mention the 3 ribs that appeared off Cape Lookout with 6/rib all in black and balaclava'd up armed to the teeth..

[Lihuedooley77]

hossierdoc,

Sorry to hear of those terrible situations of your family and friends who were attacked. Very sorry.

You and Erica have a couple of things in common, in that she is also an M.D. supervising physican ( 4 different L. A. County Health Dept Clinics ) . Before that, hospitals and E.R's. She retired shortly before we moved over to Kauai Island for 10 yrs,

She is also a very competent and knowledgeable sailor for 35 years now. She is also a private pilot and aerobatic pilot. Scuba diver, sky diver, skiier, etc.

I am a Vietnam Vet, and after discharge and working in high explosives, had two parallel careers as a merchant marine officer 100/500 tons. Instructor, and charter capt. Both of those were at the same time for about 35 years. None of that couch sitting thumb twidding video games.

The other career was Flight Instructor, Charter Pilot , and Corporate Pilot, and the last 17 years and 2500 missions as an instructor flying air combat 5 and 6 g dogfights.

To your point, you call us lucky, and we have just blunderd thru life. Well, some luck is OK, but we also , because of our varied and demanding back grounds, we have have a great deal of situational awareness and are constantly thinking ahead.


Also, I am reading here, lot of talk about the military, mostly by those who have not been there and done that . I come from a long line of men who served this nation going back to WW1, WW2, and my Marine Corps Step dad, who served for the duration of the WW2 in the Pacific, and two tours in the Korean War ( police action ) .

I voulnteered for Vietnam, but was no war hero . And, am fortunate to have used the Veetnam GI Bill for my flight training, and to this day, have the VA Health Care System that has taken great care of me and even saved my life. Bless the VA .

Point being, we have put ourselves on the line for most of our lives, and have survived . You say it is luck, I will add on that it is work , study, persistance, professionalism, and situational awareness.

I did not survive 6500 hrs TT, by being lucky. Although, I will take any luck that comes my way . We stay ahead of the power curve, and so far so good.

I also have the sense not to worry about things that I cannot fix , especially in foreign countries, nor do I dwell or stress on them.

I am going to continue to take care of Erica, and she does the same for me. We are thoughtfull and respectful of everyone, and we are going to continue our adventure travels .

Hopefully everyone on this forum will have a rewarding and fun 2019, and may they and their families remain safe and in good health.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77

hossierdoc,

Sorry to hear of those terrible situations of your family and friends who were attacked. Very sorry.

You and Erica have a couple of things in common, in that she is also an M.D. supervising physican ( 4 different L. A. County Health Dept Clinics ) . Before that, hospitals and E.R's. She retired shortly before we moved over to Kauai Island for 10 yrs,

She is also a very competent and knowledgeable sailor for 35 years now. She is also a private pilot and aerobatic pilot. Scuba diver, sky diver, skiier, etc.

I am a Vietnam Vet, and after discharge and working in high explosives, had two parallel careers as a merchant marine officer 100/500 tons. Instructor, and charter capt. Both of those were at the same time for about 35 years. None of that couch sitting thumb twidding video games.

The other career was Flight Instructor, Charter Pilot , and Corporate Pilot, and the last 17 years and 2500 missions as an instructor flying air combat 5 and 6 g dogfights.

To your point, you call us lucky, and we have just blunderd thru life. Well, some luck is OK, but we also , because of our varied and demanding back grounds, we have have a great deal of situational awareness and are constantly thinking ahead.


Also, I am reading here, lot of talk about the military, mostly by those who have not been there and done that . I come from a long line of men who served this nation going back to WW1, WW2, and my Marine Corps Step dad, who served for the duration of the WW2 in the Pacific, and two tours in the Korean War ( police action ) .

I voulnteered for Vietnam, but was no war hero . And, am fortunate to have used the Veetnam GI Bill for my flight training, and to this day, have the VA Health Care System that has taken great care of me and even saved my life. Bless the VA .

Point being, we have put ourselves on the line for most of our lives, and have survived . You say it is luck, I will add on that it is work , study, persistance, professionalism, and situational awareness.

I did not survive 6500 hrs TT, by being lucky. Although, I will take any luck that comes my way . We stay ahead of the power curve, and so far so good.

I also have the sense not to worry about things that I cannot fix , especially in foreign countries, nor do I dwell or stress on them.

I am going to continue to take care of Erica, and she does the same for me. We are thoughtfull and respectful of everyone, and we are going to continue our adventure travels .

Hopefully everyone on this forum will have a rewarding and fun 2019, and may they and their families remain safe and in good health.

[OldMan]

Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77

hossierdoc,

Sorry to hear of those terrible situations of your family and friends who were attacked. Very sorry.

You and Erica have a couple of things in common, in that she is also an M.D. supervising physican ( 4 different L. A. County Health Dept Clinics ) . Before that, hospitals and E.R's. She retired shortly before we moved over to Kauai Island for 10 yrs,

She is also a very competent and knowledgeable sailor for 35 years now. She is also a private pilot and aerobatic pilot. Scuba diver, sky diver, skiier, etc.

I am a Vietnam Vet, and after discharge and working in high explosives, had two parallel careers as a merchant marine officer 100/500 tons. Instructor, and charter capt. Both of those were at the same time for about 35 years. None of that couch sitting thumb twidding video games.

The other career was Flight Instructor, Charter Pilot , and Corporate Pilot, and the last 17 years and 2500 missions as an instructor flying air combat 5 and 6 g dogfights.

To your point, you call us lucky, and we have just blunderd thru life. Well, some luck is OK, but we also , because of our varied and demanding back grounds, we have have a great deal of situational awareness and are constantly thinking ahead.


Also, I am reading here, lot of talk about the military, mostly by those who have not been there and done that . I come from a long line of men who served this nation going back to WW1, WW2, and my Marine Corps Step dad, who served for the duration of the WW2 in the Pacific, and two tours in the Korean War ( police action ) .

I voulnteered for Vietnam, but was no war hero . And, am fortunate to have used the Veetnam GI Bill for my flight training, and to this day, have the VA Health Care System that has taken great care of me and even saved my life. Bless the VA .

Point being, we have put ourselves on the line for most of our lives, and have survived . You say it is luck, I will add on that it is work , study, persistance, professionalism, and situational awareness.

I did not survive 6500 hrs TT, by being lucky. Although, I will take any luck that comes my way . We stay ahead of the power curve, and so far so good.

I also have the sense not to worry about things that I cannot fix , especially in foreign countries, nor do I dwell or stress on them.

I am going to continue to take care of Erica, and she does the same for me. We are thoughtfull and respectful of everyone, and we are going to continue our adventure travels .

Hopefully everyone on this forum will have a rewarding and fun 2019, and may they and their families remain safe and in good health.

Thank You for your service!!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Hoosierdoc

Most people will not need a gun in their lives. But millions will.

"Need"? Millions?

Many people have appropriate uses for fireams. Such as trained professionals in LEO, security etc. Many more have appropriate recreational uses - hunting, sport, collections. To those who are responsible and accountable gun users - bravo. Carry on.

But who NEEDS a gun? Other than the pros in their work... just about nobody. Sifting through the very few actual attack scenarios given here or elsewhere... they are very, very unlikely to happen to the average person, and the first, best action in just about every case was to avoid the scenario. A sketchy situation plus a gun does not equal a safe situation.

Add a gun to each of your listed scenarios. In any one of them, a gun MIGHT have made a difference, but there are so many variables, what-ifs, etc that you cannot say that the gun would be a GUARANTEE of a better outcome. In many cases the gun could also make things worse.

Given the low probability of threats experienced by most cruisers, the uncertain probable 'success' rate of gun use by cruisers in threat situations, the extreme hassle and legal dangers of firearms possession and declaration in most parts of the world, the increased danger of accidents, mistakes or misuse from simply having a gun around... it's really hard to conclude that there are net benefits to having a gun on a boat as 'protection'. Hence the negative reaction from most of us.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

We tried to take Quebec but YOU guys used guns to stop us. Now you can keep it. Nah.

We're smarter now. Tell you what, we'll give you Quebec and the whole Trudeau family. How's that sound ? I'd rather trade than fight. I don't own a gun

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Hoosierdoc

Have you shot your crossbow from your boat at a floating target? It’s hard.

How quickly can you get the second shot off? How many bolts do you keep ready to go? Do you think your crossbow is an adequate weapon to choose against a semi-auto firearm on another boat?

Have you shot your crossbow from your boat at a floating target? It’s hard.

Yes it is hard. You can't just spray bullets at a target. It has to be close enough to be an actual threat. With practice, you can shoot a fist-sized group at 80 yards. It's as accurate at that range as a rifle being shot by a non-Olympics class shooter. Both weapons would be equally challenging to place one projectile on a target from a moving boat in ocean swells.

The bolt velocity from a good crossbow is 350 feet per second with a 700 grain bolt. If you do the physics on those numbers, the amount of power is equivalent to a mid-ranged rifle bullet. (No, it's not a .50 caliber rifle.)

You can shoot a crossbow at a rate of about one round every 5 seconds - with practice.

But just like with a rifle - shooting holes in a paper target isn't the same when the target is shooting back. Most of the "shooters" I've talked to have little or no actual combat training. They don't even know the difference between "cover" and "concealment." Their lack of tactical training would give them little chance in actual combat. Plus, their physical fitness is so poor that an adversary would only need to force them to run a few tens of yards before they'd drop dead from a coronary or get flanked by the adversary. "Let's shoot holes in paper and then go back and spend the whole afternoon drinking beer and watching football." That's hardly an appropriate training regime.

Do you think your crossbow is an adequate weapon to choose against a semi-auto firearm on another boat?

If Blackbeard and his band of pirates attacks my little boat, they are truly desperate to expend the effort for so little to gain. I worry about that as much as I worry about being hit by an errant torpedo in World War Three. If they had a choice between my 26 foot boat and yours, which boat do you think they'd choose?

For clarification: I don't carry any weapons on board, beyond what I could improvise from a boat hook and knife. I consider the threats requiring a weapon to be either fantastical or so rare - assuming I'm not dealing drugs or otherwise behaving like an idiot - to be less than being shot by some nearby idiot who's mishandled his weapon.


I'm not anti-gun. I'm anti-idiot.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by Hoosierdoc

Not very. But it’s a phenomenal deterrent. Are you going to keep doing what you want when someone is shooting at you repeatedly? Or are you going to surrender immediately?

I can drop 33 rounds from my semi-auto in about 10 seconds. Pretty sure i’ll Be on target with a few of those.

How about a crossbow?

Guns aren’t just to hit people with bullets. They’re more often used to change someone’s behavior.

I’d add a bunch of smilie faces but i’m Trying to have an honest discussion not make mocking retorts.

Yeah right, nothing says efficient and responsible firearm use like spraying bullets everywhere and hoping ones near the target. Chances are excellent that if someone attacks your boat you'll be ridiculously outgunned and outmanned so I give your chances for survival with that strategy at about zero.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

Have you shot your crossbow from your boat at a floating target? It’s hard.

Yes it is hard. You can't just spray bullets at a target. It has to be close enough to be an actual threat. With practice, you can shoot a fist-sized group at 80 yards. It's as accurate at that range as a rifle being shot by a non-Olympics class shooter. Both weapons would be equally challenging to place one projectile on a target from a moving boat in ocean swells.

The bolt velocity from a good crossbow is 350 feet per second with a 700 grain bolt. If you do the physics on those numbers, the amount of power is equivalent to a mid-ranged rifle bullet. (No, it's not a .50 caliber rifle.)

You can shoot a crossbow at a rate of about one round every 5 seconds - with practice.

But just like with a rifle - shooting holes in a paper target isn't the same when the target is shooting back. Most of the "shooters" I've talked to have little or no actual combat training. They don't even know the difference between "cover" and "concealment." Their lack of tactical training would give them little chance in actual combat. Plus, their physical fitness is so poor that an adversary would only need to force them to run a few tens of yards before they'd drop dead from a coronary or get flanked by the adversary. "Let's shoot holes in paper and then go back and spend the whole afternoon drinking beer and watching football." That's hardly an appropriate training regime.

Do you think your crossbow is an adequate weapon to choose against a semi-auto firearm on another boat?

If Blackbeard and his band of pirates attacks my little boat, they are truly desperate to expend the effort for so little to gain. I worry about that as much as I worry about being hit by an errant torpedo in World War Three. If they had a choice between my 26 foot boat and yours, which boat do you think they'd choose?

For clarification: I don't carry any weapons on board, beyond what I could improvise from a boat hook and knife. I consider the threats requiring a weapon to be either fantastical or so rare - assuming I'm not dealing drugs or otherwise behaving like an idiot - to be less than being shot by some nearby idiot who's mishandled his weapon.


I'm not anti-gun. I'm anti-idiot.

Too much testosterone and not enough brain is a far too common a combination. I also carry no weapons, but I am anti-gun Viet Nam made me that way.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

We're smarter now. Tell you what, we'll give you Quebec and the whole Trudeau family. How's that sound ? I'd rather trade than fight. I don't own a gun

Please give us Trudeau. We could use an actual leader.

[fish53]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

"Need"? Millions?

Many people have appropriate uses for fireams. Such as trained professionals in LEO, security etc. Many more have appropriate recreational uses - hunting, sport, collections. To those who are responsible and accountable gun users - bravo. Carry on.

But who NEEDS a gun? Other than the pros in their work... just about nobody. Sifting through the very few actual attack scenarios given here or elsewhere... they are very, very unlikely to happen to the average person, and the first, best action in just about every case was to avoid the scenario. A sketchy situation plus a gun does not equal a safe situation.

Add a gun to each of your listed scenarios. In any one of them, a gun MIGHT have made a difference, but there are so many variables, what-ifs, etc that you cannot say that the gun would be a GUARANTEE of a better outcome. In many cases the gun could also make things worse.

Given the low probability of threats experienced by most cruisers, the uncertain probable 'success' rate of gun use by cruisers in threat situations, the extreme hassle and legal dangers of firearms possession and declaration in most parts of the world, the increased danger of accidents, mistakes or misuse from simply having a gun around... it's really hard to conclude that there are net benefits to having a gun on a boat as 'protection'. Hence the negative reaction from most of us.

Well said and a realistically accurate assessment.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

Please give us Trudeau. We could use an actual leader.

Perspective is everything

[Rorzech]

To me it makes as much sense as a Canadian bringing a pound of Pot with them, cause you know, it’s legal in Canada.
I’m not picking on Canadians, just trying to illustrate that what is acceptable in one place is not in another.


If you get caught in Canada with more than an oz of pot on your body then you're going to jail. If you get caught with a joint in your pocket while your driving, you're going to jail also.
There is so many rules and regulations regarding pot that it must have been designed only to be a giant money grab.
Legalizing Pot made smoking pot a 100 times more risky of getting fined and going to jail. I Thank heaven that i can't stand the smell of that skunky stuff ! Pot smokers still have to hide in their basements to avoid all the trouble associated with smoking it ! I'm sure the Canadian Black Market is thriving more than ever now !

[admiralslater]

Capt Pat , I understand your perspective and agree. No one is perfect but at the moment I prefer our leader.
Ps I think we have developed so much leeway that we drifted right out of the thread

[Davy J]

It appears he deleted his post about being a .gov contractor and jab at the current administration............