Realistic length measurements are needed.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by kapnd

Just curious, Is the last sentence there your interpretation or some official ruling?

Most marinas I’m familiar with charge by the foot, including any kind of extremities, regardless of what/how the manufacturer calls their boat.

IMO, that’s totally fair. A 40’ boat with a 3’ bowsprit in a 40’ slip will present a distinct headache hazard to persons walking down the pier!

Most marinas here use the official ships tonnage papers as the official length

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Interesting.
Here in the US, in the section of the CFRs for "Definitions", the "Length overall" is, (paraphrasing,) "From the forwardmost point of the stem to the aftermost point of the stern post"
And appurtenances such as bowsprits/railings/outboard rudders/boomkins/pushpits/pulpits etc. are NOT part of LOA.

Could you cite? I am seeing the following:
Title-46 CFR subpart-B section-170.055(k)(2) "Length overall (LOA) means the horizontal distance between the forward-most and after-most points on the hull."

[goboatingnow]

Tne IMO International Convention on Tonnage Measurement of Ships, 1969 lsrgely dictates the measurement conventions but equally gives subscribing states significant powers of alteration

Hence you can find considerable difference in “ official” yacht length depending on the national rules being applied by the measurement surveyors.

Tne imo convention for ships under 25 metres

“ means 96 per cent of the total length on a waterline at 85 per cent of the least moulded depth measured from the top of the keel, or the length from the fore side of the stem to the axis of the rudder stock on that waterline, if that be greater. In ships designed with a rake of keel the waterline on which this length is measured shall be parallel to the designed waterline;”

[denverd0n]

The Coast Guard regulations only apply to Coast Guard matters. Things like, tonnage, or LOA for different kinds of requirements. Neither boat manufacturers, nor marinas, are bound by those regulations.


What's more, let's say somebody buys themselves a Sailfast 38. Then, a year or two later they decide that they want to put a longer bowsprit on it. Are they obligated to redo all of the paperwork, and the logo on the boat, to make it now a Sailfast 39? Or if they add a swim platform. Now do they have to change it to a Sailfast 41?


No, of course not. That would just be foolish.


When Pacific Seacraft advertises their PS 37 for sale, the name they use for it is just PS 37. They didn't name the boat "PS 36 feet 11 inches." That, too, would just be foolish. Boat names are mostly about marketing the product, and not trying to describe the official specifications of the boat.


What marinas do is up to each of them. There are no laws that regulate how they measure a boat. Even just here in the Tampa area, it varies from marina to marina. Some will measure the boat from the forward most point, to the after most point. Others will rent you a slip of whatever size, and let you put a boat that is longer than that in it, so long as (in their opinion, and sole discretion) it doesn't stick out too far.


This is really not that complicated, and it's really not that big of a deal.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by kapnd

Just curious, Is the last sentence there your interpretation or some official ruling?

Most marinas I’m familiar with charge by the foot, including any kind of extremities, regardless of what/how the manufacturer calls their boat.

IMO, that’s totally fair. A 40’ boat with a 3’ bowsprit in a 40’ slip will present a distinct headache hazard to persons walking down the pier!

Most marinas here use the official ships tonnage papers as the official length

If you are documented vessel and I change the documented length you are actually required to re submit the tonnage calculations or have a reliable survey. This will then update the relevant documents etc.

Obviously if your length change falls outside the documented length then no , even if your marina might take a different view

[gjweston]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Interesting.
Here in the US, in the section of the CFRs for "Definitions", the "Length overall" is, (paraphrasing,) "From the forwardmost point of the stem to the aftermost point of the stern post"
And appurtenances such as bowsprits/railings/outboard rudders/boomkins/pushpits/pulpits etc. are NOT part of LOA.

This LOA definition is also what is taught in USCG Auxiliary boating classes.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by gjweston

This LOA definition is also what is taught in USCG Auxiliary boating classes.

It doesn’t really matter as the us is a signatory to the Imo convention

[rslifkin]

As far as I'm concerned, published LOA should be the real, full length of the boat as assembled. And on newer boats, it's typically listed that way. Beneteau is one of the only builders I see actually list all 3 lengths though. LOA, LOD (length on deck, so basically the length of the hull mould), and LWL.

As an example, my own boat only lists LOA and LWL. But what they listed as the LOA (38'0") is really the LOD. Actual LOA including the pulpit and swim platform (both bolted on) is 42'4". And with the dinghy hoisted in davits, we're 45'10".

[merrydolphin]

Marketing. It’s all about marketing. A blah blah 34 or 340, may only be 31 LOD. Length on deck. The real “size” of the boat other than displacement. Now the LOA. Length over all is what you may get charged for in a marina or boatyard.
Bow sprits, large anchor platforms and swim platforms can become expensive.

So watch what the sales people say. Do your research ahead. Don’t be fooled.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by merrydolphin

Marketing. It’s all about marketing. A blah blah 34 or 340, may only be 31 LOD. Length on deck. The real “size” of the boat other than displacement. Now the LOA. Length over all is what you may get charged for in a marina or boatyard.
Bow sprits, large anchor platforms and swim platforms can become expensive.

So watch what the sales people say. Do your research ahead. Don’t be fooled.

Exactly. In my mind, I don't care what they call the marketing size or the model, but I do care that they publish useful information about size.

[tjamaco]

A few years ago, we stopped overnight at Jabin Boat Yard near Annapolis, MD to visit friends in our 36' Endeavour. The only slip available was a 50', for which they charged us full freight for 50'. Next morning, when leaving, they tried to charge us double because they noticed we were a catamaran with two hulls in their 50 ft slip. I suggested they could send us a bill as we backed out of their slip.

[eheffa]

Interesting that Nordic Tug seems to under-rate their boat names.

Our 2006 'Nordic Tug 37 is 39'10" on the water line and 43' LOA with the bowsprit / anchor platform and with our dinghy on a swim platform davit. Nordic Tugs eventually changed the name to a 'Nordic Tug 39' for the exact same hull. This would have been a more accurate name from the outset and probably better marketing in my opinion. (The newest version is a 'Nordic Tug 40' with a slightly lengthened revised hull.)

When checking into a marina, we ask for 43' feet of room because that's what the tape measure says we need...

-evan

[Bill_Giles]

Our Bavaria 36 is actually 36’10” to distinguish it from the Bavaria 37 which is 37’6”. When we go into a marina in Europe they tell us we are 11 metres whereas that is 36’1”. However, her ‘handbook’ length is 11.4m and her hull is 10.96m (36’4” and 36’11’). Confusing is it not? If anyone asks we say it is big enough for us.

[timb7734]

Most marinas these days are smart enough to require the correct OAL, even customs in the Bahamas has this down. Incidentally my vessel nomenclature says it is a 52, but measures 55'7".

[timb7734]

The 58' Fleming actually measures 65'.