Realistic length measurements are needed.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

A few years ago our 32' flybridge boat was docked next to a new 36' boat of the same basic design. Quite to our surprise, we noticed that both boats were the same (within a couple inches) end to end length. Why the difference? Our anchor pulpit and swim platform were bolted on and his were molded in. He paid for a 36' boat and we had bought a 32 but the boats were the same size when measured without the pulpit and swim platform. He paid thousands more for a 36' boat without realizing that he really had a boat which would have been listed as a 32 had the measurements been realistic. We had bolts to attach the pulpit and platform but his boat had resin. That resin was incredibly profitable for the manufacturer.

We now have a 43’ which was docked next to a 39’ last month. They looked similar in length, so we measured them. My 43’ is about five inches longer than the 39’ which had a bolted swim platform and anchor pulpit.

As we walk around marinas and take a close look at various designs, it's interesting that what would be a 28' (WLL) boat if it had a relatively plumb bow has become a 36 and sold as such due to an overly long stiletto bow and another couple feet of molded-in anchor pulpit. Also, a boat may be only 35' 7" but it's listed as a 36. And don't forget the occasionally used method of measuring boats along the gunnels rather than centerline. It seems as though nautical consumers may be paying for several feet of boat that they aren't getting. We can buy a dozen donuts and be assured that 12 will be in the box but can't be quite so sure of the numbers when we buy a boat. That needs to change. It's time truth in advertising was applied to boats rather than allow the manufacturers to be innovative with their measurements.

LET THE BUYER BEWARE!

It is all marketing until you get to comparing boat ratios where the inches and pounds matter. One of the worst examples would be an LOA for a boat with a five-foot bowsprit...the devil is in the details! That is where Length on Deck (LOD) is the measure to go with. All the rest is nonsense.
What exists is due to the boating industry's lack of strict regulations in such things.
Marinas and boat yards use a different yard stick.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Most marinas here use the official ships tonnage papers as the official length

I have been to a lot of Marinas along with East Coast of the US, and here I have never seen a marina use anything but both length.
My boat is 36 feet from bow to stern, but it’s actually closer to 40 feet when you include the bowsprit and the davits. Most marinas here except the 36 foot length, but some will charge me as a 40 foot boat.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by tjamaco

A few years ago, we stopped overnight at Jabin Boat Yard near Annapolis, MD to visit friends in our 36' Endeavour. The only slip available was a 50', for which they charged us full freight for 50'. Next morning, when leaving, they tried to charge us double because they noticed we were a catamaran with two hulls in their 50 ft slip. I suggested they could send us a bill as we backed out of their slip.

Yes. I stayed at jabin’s one night and never again!
I found them to be the most arrogant bunch in Annapolis.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[Cynara]

Many marinas measure the boat changing sticker won't help

[Cynara]

Our Hans Christian 34 was 42 feet LOA

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I know of quite a number of owners who change the model stickers to a lesser length; means cheaper marina berth fees.

Really?! I have met thousands of cruisers and haven’t seen a single one who did this.

[Jim Cate]

No matter what the label on the boat may say, most marina staff can tell if a boat hangs out past the nominal length of the berth. They may be avaricious but they are not stupid about such things in my experience.

I have however noted folks changing the labels on outboards, sometimes to reduce theft likelihood, sometimes to get bigger motors into areas with horsepower limits

Jim

[nonav]

That’s not why marina$ care about those appendage$.

It$ all about the money!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

No matter what the label on the boat may say, most marina staff can tell if a boat hangs out past the nominal length of the berth. They may be avaricious but they are not stupid about such things in my experience.

I have however noted folks changing the labels on outboards, sometimes to reduce theft likelihood, sometimes to get bigger motors into areas with horsepower limits

Jim

Certainly in Europe you walk in with ships papers and insurance. Both typically state the measured length , that’s what the marina uses.

[Ike]

So I see that nothing has changed in the boat marketing industry. my 1972 Sea Ray is a 190 model, implying it 's 19 feet, but its really only slightly more than 18 feet. If you go back in history to the 1950's and 60s, this was common practice in the US (I don't know about elsewhere) boatbuilding industry. Usually the stated model was given the length around the sheer or gunnels. The coast Guard pretty much stopped that in the small boat industry because in rating your boat for capacity, horsepower etc you had to use centerline length and any appurtenances had to contribute to the displacement of the hull. So if you had a swim platform you couldn't include it unless it was a molded part of the hull, sealed, and the bottom of it was submerged when the boat was resting on it's designed waterline. Plus that, anything that could be removed (i.e. Bolted on) could not be used.

But this all applied only to small boats under 20 feet. ABYC has pretty much the same standard but includes larger boats up to about 26 feet.

Above that it's open season unless you want to document the boat with the Coast Guard. Then there is a specific rule you must use when measuring the boat. It was cited several times in this thread.

What persons buying a boat should do is ask for the design specs for the boat. The design specs will list the water line length, hull length, LOA, LOD, maximum beam, beam at the water line, displacement etc.

Never, ever, believe the sales brochure, or the broker. Of course they are going to try to make it sound bigger than it is. That way they can charge more.

[hpeer]

DISPLACEMEMT is a better, more accurate measure of boat size. Now if we consider u ld get some accurate displacement measures it would work.

[Bruce K]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Really?! I have met thousands of cruisers and haven’t seen a single one who did this.

Ever been to Coffs Harbour or Yamba?

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

. We can buy a dozen donuts and be assured that 12 will be in the box but can't be quite so sure of the numbers when we buy a boat. That needs to change. It's time truth in advertising was applied to boats rather than allow the manufacturers to be innovative with their measurements.

Well there may be a dozen donuts but how big and/or weight of each donut? Need to investigate further, just as you would when looking at model labels on a boat. Two kettles may look the same and carry a quart, but one is 1000W and the other 2000W. The list is endless and most people are wary enough not to accept such things at face value and they read reviews etc before buying especially something that is in the $1000+.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Certainly in Europe you walk in with ships papers and insurance. Both typically state the measured length , that’s what the marina uses.

Once again you are a bit Eurocentric. My experience reaches from Northern Calif through Mexico and on across the S Pacific to NZed and Oz. While nowadays the marinas want to see evidence of insurance, I've never been asked for ships papers... and if they did, it wouldn't help them 'cause our State rego does not include such information. The insurance form lists our length, does not specify how measured and is simply what I told them... nothing official there.

Marinas generally just ask the skipper for a length and assign a berth sight unseen. If it is for a long stay they might have a look to see if you fit in the berth, and a very few have threatened to measure us... but none have ever actually done so (AFAIK) .

Jim

[StuM]

Originally Posted by hpeer

DISPLACEMEMT is a better, more accurate measure of boat size. Now if we consider u ld get some accurate displacement measures it would work.

Only for similar style of boats. Compare the displacement of a keelboat, a sailing catamaran, a cabin cruiser and a trawler of similar "size".

Or enough a GRP versus a steel keelboat with similar dimensions.