Realistic length measurements are needed.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Once again you are a bit Eurocentric. My experience reaches from Northern Calif through Mexico and on across the S Pacific to NZed and Oz. While nowadays the marinas want to see evidence of insurance, I've never been asked for ships papers... and if they did, it wouldn't help them 'cause our State rego does not include such information. The insurance form lists our length, does not specify how measured and is simply what I told them... nothing official there.



Marinas generally just ask the skipper for a length and assign a berth sight unseen. If it is for a long stay they might have a look to see if you fit in the berth, and a very few have threatened to measure us... but none have ever actually done so (AFAIK) .



Jim

As was said northern California does not define the world

Certainly in Europe you will produce your ships papers nns regular basis. It’s primary basis is to provide proof of ownership. It would be almost impossible cruise these waters without such documents irrsoective if they are legally required ( usually ) or not.

Insurance is differen but ships papers are a requirement by and large. There is something comforting handing over a impressively bound ship paper book writen in fountain pen and containing various wax seals and official Gov stamps. Rather like a valuable passport.

These days many berths use square area to compute costs so both documented length and breath are required.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

As was said northern California does not define the world

Certainly in Europe you will produce your ships papers nns regular basis. It’s primary basis is to provide proof of ownership.

i suppose it might depend upon what you class as 'ships papers' (a fairly nebulous term...) but our german registration certificate makes it clear that it is NOT proof of ownership.

cheers,

[s/v Jedi]

In 30 years of cruising in the Netherlands, Belgium, England North Sea area I have never had to show any papers and this was up to the early 2000’s.

[rslifkin]

Jim's experience matches mine in the northeast US as well. A few marinas are really fussy about knowing your exact size, but many are happy to just go by whatever the nameplate size or listed LOA for the boat is. Some just charge by the size of the slip they put you in and say you can't stick out more than X amount. Occasionally you find a yacht club or some place that doesn't even charge by size and it's just some amount of money per night as long as you fit.

I have seen a few marinas do the square area thing, although mostly for seasonal slips, not for transients. It makes sense if their slip layout has paired slips with nothing dividing them, as the beam of a boat determines what can fit next to it. So a wider boat pays more, as they're either going to have to find a narrow enough boat or leave the other slip in the pair empty.

Paperwork wise, for long term stays or a seasonal slip, wanting to see insurance is common. But for a couple of nights, most marinas don't ask and I've never heard of one wanting to see the boat registration, etc. Even my home marina has never wanted to see the registration, they just noted on their paperwork what the reg numbers on the bow are.

Different parts of the world will have different attitudes on a lot of this stuff, of course.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by StuM

Only for similar style of boats. Compare the displacement of a keelboat, a sailing catamaran, a cabin cruiser and a trawler of similar "size".

Or enough a GRP versus a steel keelboat with similar dimensions.

Yes, of course. But what is the point of comparing a mono length to a cats length anyway?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Yes, of course. But what is the point of comparing a mono length to a cats length anyway?

Knowing how much stuff a boat can carry (both volume and weight) is a useful measure of size. But knowing how much space it takes up (in all dimensions) is also useful, as that tells you about places it can / can't fit.

[hpeer]

Right, and displacement tells you how big a hole in the water you have to fill.

LOA does not.

Worst, it is an advertising gimmick.

[Cheyne]

I have never been asked to prove my length or for insurance for a transit slip. I have been asked for my BoatUS membership for my discount.

[Jim Cate]

As was said northern California does not define the world

As was said, my experience only started in NCal, but over the past 35 years has extended across the Pacific, ending in Australia... a fairly wide swath, encompassing many cultures and marina managers.

Your experience in Europe (which seems at odds with several other responders) does not define the world either. It is just one small quadrant of a vast and varied place.

Jim

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by chrisr

i suppose it might depend upon what you class as 'ships papers' (a fairly nebulous term...) but our german registration certificate makes it clear that it is NOT proof of ownership.

cheers,

You are techically correct, this is a common misconception however, many authorities/institutions do (in ignorance) accept it as proof of ownership.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You are techically correct, this is a common misconception however, many authorities/institutions do (in ignorance) accept it as proof of ownership.

Could you list some of the authorities that accept a registration certificate as proof of ownership?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Tne IMO International Convention on Tonnage Measurement of Ships, 1969 lsrgely dictates the measurement conventions but equally gives subscribing states significant powers of alteration

Hence you can find considerable difference in “ official” yacht length depending on the national rules being applied by the measurement surveyors.

Tne imo convention for ships under 25 metres

“ means 96 per cent of the total length on a waterline at 85 per cent of the least moulded depth measured from the top of the keel, or the length from the fore side of the stem to the axis of the rudder stock on that waterline, if that be greater. In ships designed with a rake of keel the waterline on which this length is measured shall be parallel to the designed waterline;”

There should be no difference in TML or RL from any Tonnage Measurement Surveyor as we all work according to IMO rules in country's that are IMO signatories.

You also seem to be confusing RL and TML and I've never seen any registry paperwork use the term "official length". Is that something from boats under 12m that qualify for "applied tonnage" or "simplified measurement" ? Those I'd know nothing about.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Could you list some of the authorities that accept a registration certificate as proof of ownership?

Banks, Insurance companies, marinas ... Divorce courts

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Could you list some of the authorities that accept a registration certificate as proof of ownership?

It depends on the registration. With NY state registration on my boat (not USCG documented), the registration is proof of ownership. My boat is a couple years too old for NY to issue a separate title, so the registration is considered transferable and covers it all.

[Cynara]

All throughout central America they accepted our USCG documentation as ownership