Realistic length measurements are needed.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

correct my national registration is most certainly a proof of ownership I had ro provide notorised copies of all bills of sale from the manufacturer forward

In what nation are you registered ?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

And that's where the biggest "it depends" comes in based on where the registration is from. Some places issue a registration that's proof of ownership, others issue separate registration and title.

and some, like Canada do not issue titles at all.
Proof of ownership in Canada is via Bill of Sale.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

and some, like Canada do not issue titles at all.

Proof of ownership in Canada is via Bill of Sale.

Everything I read indicates REGISTRATION in Canada IS a title, proof of ownership:

https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-trans...gister-vessels
https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-trans...sfer-ownership

"When you buy or sell a registered vessel, you must send a copy of the Bill of Sale to the Vessel Registration Office. It’s the registered owner’s (seller) responsibility to ensure that the transfer of ownership is completed."



from https://safeboatingcourse.ca/pleasur...-registration/
"The register is a kind of ownership verification system that is managed by Transport Canada"


from https://boating.ncf.ca/license.html
"Transport Canada is responsible for the Canadian Register of Vessels, which is a legal title system for the ownership of boats. "


HOWEVER, as Boatpoker indicates, the actual "Certificate of Registry" states, on the back: "A Certificate of Registry is not a document of title." Perhaps the actual title is on file at the Registry; as they do require the Bill of Sale" when changing ownership.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

HOWEVER, as Boatpoker indicates, the actual "Certificate of Registry" states, on the back: "A Certificate of Registry is not a document of title." Perhaps the actual title is on file at the Registry; as they do require the Bill of Sale" when changing ownership.

No, they do not keep a "title" on file. I've been a Transport Canada Appointed Tonnage Measurer and IMO recognized Measurer for almost 30 years and deal with TC Ships Register office routinely including running seminars for their Marine Inspectors in regards to pleasurecraft. They absolutely keep no "title" on file, I don't think they'd even understand if you used the word "title".

[goboatingnow]

The purpose of a ships registration is two fold , one is an official record of size , second is a clear identification bog the legal owner. Thirdly it acts as a repository for records of charges including mortgages and other Leins against the vessel. Frothy it acts as an non disbutiblevtevitd of the vessel primary dimensions recorded on the tonnage cert. This only applies to “ full “ registration not the various firms of “ light “ registration ( U.K. SsR or Dutch etc )

It would be a very silly person that would travel internationally without such registration documentation

[Jim Cate]

It would be a very silly person that would travel internationally without such registration documentation

Guilty as charged, your Honor! I guess I've been silly for all the years since 1986 when we left San Francisco, armed only with state registration. No official has ever even blinked when we were asked for ship's papers and presented this document... and we've cleared in and out quite a few times in quite a few countries, all across the Pacific.

Jim

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Guilty as charged, your Honor! I guess I've been silly for all the years since 1986 when we left San Francisco, armed only with state registration. No official has ever even blinked when we were asked for ship's papers and presented this document... and we've cleared in and out quite a few times in quite a few countries, all across the Pacific.

Jim

The operative word is “ yet “

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The operative word is “ yet “

I tremble before the prospect of... what?

Jim

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I tremble before the prospect of... what?



Jim

The removal of your freedom ( or the boat ) one suspects

[StuM]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The purpose of a ships registration is two fold , one is an official record of size , second is a clear identification bog the legal owner. Thirdly it acts as a repository for records of charges including mortgages and other Leins against the vessel. Frothy it acts as an non disbutiblevtevitd of the vessel primary dimensions recorded on the tonnage cert. This only applies to “ full “ registration not the various firms of “ light “ registration ( U.K. SsR or Dutch etc )

It would be a very silly person that would travel internationally without such registration documentation

The primary purpose of a ship's registration in to comply with Articles 91-94 of UNCLOS (The Interneational Convention of the Law Of The Sea.) (and to provide protection under Article 110.)


In many jurisdictions there is no requirement to register a vessel unless it is intended to leave territorial waters and what details are recorded in the registry also varies widely.

[Cynara]

Friends of ours traveled all through central America with just California registration

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The removal of your freedom ( or the boat ) one suspects

GBN, once again you are spouting theory versus long term and wide spread experience. We have cleared in and out of 11 different countries in the Pacific, most of them multiple times and our freedom is intact and our boat remains under our control and ownership. Fancy that!

There may be countries where this would not be true, but we've not come across them yet. And I bet t hat you have not either... that is, you have not tried to do the formalities with only state rego and been rebuffed or incarcerated. No, you have successfully completed formalities (I suppose) using some other form of certificate. Well, bully for you! But it does not prove that our usage was not successful... and it has been, even in countries well known for picky officials, like NZed and Oz.

You may well ask "why not document"? Well, when one has no useful mailing address, and when the USCG documentation required annual renewal via snail mail, the state rego, which only requires renewal every third year and can be accomplished over the WWW at a nominal cost was very attractive. Until I am advised by competent authority that it is inadequate for our purpose I will ignore the spurious advice that my freedom and boat ownership are at risk and continue to rely upon our state rego.

BTW, at this point in my life I'm not likely to venture to the EU waters, so regulations from that region are of little import to me. In the Pacific islands I know what has worked and continues to work.

Jim

[goboatingnow]

The point is it’s an unwise person that’s goes international without properly registration and it’s documentation

Lack of adtesss is not an issue nor residency , for example the polish registry is very easy in this regards

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The point is it’s an unwise person that’s goes international without properly registration and it’s documentation

Lack of adtesss is not an issue nor residency , for example the polish registry is very easy in this regards

But Jim's boat IS registered. And even though the US wants a boat to be documented federally if you're traveling internationally with it, it's clear that many countries don't see the state registration as a problem. It's certainly well known that Canada and the Bahamas are used to seeing it and consider it adequate.

[Jim Cate]

Lack of adtesss is not an issue nor residency

Quite the contrary, if one is cruising and moving frequently (even between countries), the requirement to renew documentation by mail, with an unknown time delay, is indeed an issue. We've had many friends whose sailing plans were frustrated, waiting for the arrival of the renewed docs.

As an additional issue, when we bought our previous boat (in the USA) she was state registered. We were the 4th owners, and two of the three previous owners were dead. This made accumulating the paper trail of ownership required for documentation a daunting prospect. I did some research at the time (1984) and found no requirement for the Federal documentation for going foreign and so we just left... and here we are today, nearly 40 years later, sailing in Australian waters.

Was this unwise as accused? I dunno, but I'm happy enough.

Jim