Rocna 10 vs CQR 45

[Pete the Cat]

Originally Posted by Panope

My genuine CQR "45" weighs 50 pounds on my scale.

My rollbar Rocna "10" weighs 22 pounds on my scale.

A brief Google search reveals the Downeast 38 at 20,000 lbs.

The statement "Rocna anchors are superior in all metrics" is false. They are better (than equal size CQR) in many, perhaps most, but not "all" metrics.

I have tested both of these anchors in several seabed types and found the 50 lb. CQR to have higher holding power than the 22 lb. Rocna in all cases.

In a certain Sandy Mud seabed, the CQR performed nearly perfectly in 180 degree reset tests, While the Rocna was marginal.

There is no question that CQR anchors have great difficulty setting in "hard to penetrate" seabeds like hard Sand or thick weed.

If seabeds in your cruising area have softer muds and sands, and CQR anchors are known to penetrate there (like the PNW), than I would select the CQR.

If seabeds in your cruising area have hard Sand, and CQR anchors are known to "just slide along on their sides" without penetrating, then I would not leave the dock until I procured a properly sized anchor of a design that is known to work in your area.

Steve

I agree that conditions matter. I have cruised extensively for 30 years carriyng 4 anchors and only occasionally deployed anything but my CQR. I have not had a problem with reset and have no idea where claims that they do not reset come from. Rocna spends a huge amount of that overpriced cost of their anchors on advertising. I saw a guy sawing off the roll bar of a Rocna in Maine last summer. When I asked him why, he said the damn thing just clogged with bottom muck and would do nothing but slide on reset. If I anchor in a place with very large reversing currents, I set a Bahamian moor. Trying to find one anchor to replace competent seamanship is a fools errand. But very profitable for the anchor manufacturers. Sometimes the only option to an anchoring problem is to pick up and move--to another position in the anchorage or out to sea. Several boats were beached in Central America recently in a roadstead when seas and winds came up suddenly and folks tried to hunker down behind their anchors. By the time they realized they needed to leave, they could not get their gear up before being driven ashore. Hoping you can buy one anchor that will set properly in all conditions and obviate the need for exercising seamanship is not only foolish, it is dangerous. But if you only want bragging rights at the dock, buy whatever you want to talk about. I personally think forums about the "very best anchor" are very dangerous. Fortunately, most folks are not really going anywhere and will not have their skills or anchors tested.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pete the Cat

I personally think forums about the "very best anchor" are very dangerous.

Not sure anyone here would disagree ... since NO ONE has made this claim.

What I find amusing is how defensive some folks are about the use of their old CQRs. Take a deep breath. It's still OK if you want to use your old anchors. No one has said they don't work.

What has been stated, and is readily backed up by credible evidence, is that modern anchors like the Rocna are generally better than older designs like the CQR. That doesn't make the CQR a bad anchor, and obviously it still works. It just doesn't work as well -- in most situations.

As I said before, I think we spend too much time talking about anchors, and not enough time focusing on anchor technique. I still believe proper technique matters, even with newer anchors. In fact, I think those of us who first learned to anchor well with older-style anchors may have benefited from these poorer designs.

To anchor well with a CQR all the time means you really have to know what you're doing. The double-edged sword of these newer anchors is that, they are so much better, they usually work well, even when employing poor(er) technique.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

fact, I think those of us who first learned to anchor well with older-style anchors may have benefited from these poorer designs.

I'm here to learn ... what is good technique?

I just drop the anchor overboard, feed out the scope I want, set it in reverse and rig a snubber ... If it doesn't set (and it nearly always does) I just pull it all in and try somewhere else ... I have no technique at all to help make it set.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

I'm here to learn ... what is good technique?

I just drop the anchor overboard, feed out the scope I want, set it in reverse and rig a snubber ... If it doesn't set (and it nearly always does) I just pull it all in and try somewhere else ... I have no technique at all to help make it set.

With the new generation anchors I’m with you on your setting technique, nothing special needed.
I’ve heard you need to let a CQR “soak” in before backing down and setting, I don’t want an anchor I can’t set right away as there will be times where the wind is blowing strong enough that you won’t have a chance to let the anchor soak in.
My old technique with the CQR was to dive overboard, hold the CQR with the tip pointing into the substrate and have my wife back down with the engines. On a good day I didn’t get drug from one side of the anchorage to the other.
One thing I’ve noticed is those that love their CQR and don’t like the new generation anchors typically have no experience with the new generation anchors, a good enough reason for me to ignore their opinion honestly.

[Wallaby]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As I said before, I think we spend too much time talking about anchors, and not enough time focusing on anchor technique. I still believe proper technique matters, even with newer anchors. In fact, I think those of us who first learned to anchor well with older-style anchors may have benefited from these poorer designs.

Perhaps we need a thread on 'best anchoring techniques.'

The number of times I've seen boaters dump anchor and chain from the bow (while still going forward)... maybe back down.... maybe put on a snubber...

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Eagle ITA

Now I'm sure, anchor belief is harder than religious belief!
Please use any anchor you belive to be the best, but don't criticize those who use other anchors; most of them probabily with much more miles behind than you!

Preoccupation with "the best" among consumers is the stuff of marketers wet dreams. I usually go with "good enough for the job". And a freebe CQR sounds good enough to me, at least to try out and judge for oneself before forking out a small fortune for one of the current "best" types.

[Eagle ITA]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...................................

As I said before, I think we spend too much time talking about anchors, and not enough time focusing on anchor technique. I still believe proper technique matters, even with newer anchors. In fact, I think those of us who first learned to anchor well with older-style anchors may have benefited from these poorer designs.
..........................................

You are right

I've not used a CQR for (at least) the last 10 years, but as I've used it for decades before, I keep using the same method with my Sarca Excel, and other new gen anchors I found on charter/delivery boats I skippered.

...but it works, so I go on

[Eagle ITA]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Preoccupation with "the best" among consumers is the stuff of marketers wet dreams. I usually go with "good enough for the job". And a freebe CQR sounds good enough to me, at least to try out and judge for oneself before forking out a small fortune for one of the current "best" types.

As I said you are free to use any tipe of anchor you like, if CQR "sounds good enought for you", you are absolutely right to use it;
but please don't speak about the skills of "folks" you don't know, just because they like other kind of anchors, and they don't think the same of you!
Let people with poor arguments do it

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Panope

My genuine CQR "45" weighs 50 pounds on my scale.

My rollbar Rocna "10" weighs 22 pounds on my scale.

A brief Google search reveals the Downeast 38 at 20,000 lbs.

The statement "Rocna anchors are superior in all metrics" is false. They are better (than equal size CQR) in many, perhaps most, but not "all" metrics.

I have tested both of these anchors in several seabed types and found the 50 lb. CQR to have higher holding power than the 22 lb. Rocna in all cases.

In a certain Sandy Mud seabed, the CQR performed nearly perfectly in 180 degree reset tests, While the Rocna was marginal.

There is no question that CQR anchors have great difficulty setting in "hard to penetrate" seabeds like hard Sand or thick weed.

If seabeds in your cruising area have softer muds and sands, and CQR anchors are known to penetrate there (like the PNW), than I would select the CQR.

If seabeds in your cruising area have hard Sand, and CQR anchors are known to "just slide along on their sides" without penetrating, then I would not leave the dock until I procured a properly sized anchor of a design that is known to work in your area.

Steve

How on earth is that a reasonable comparison, you are comparing one anchor with half the weight of the other???

[Eagle ITA]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

How on earth is that a reasonable comparison, you are comparing one anchor with half the weight of the other???

Maybe you didn't read the first post, the question asked in this thread is just that

[smj]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Preoccupation with "the best" among consumers is the stuff of marketers wet dreams. I usually go with "good enough for the job". And a freebe CQR sounds good enough to me, at least to try out and judge for oneself before forking out a small fortune for one of the current "best" types.

My boat is worth more than a good enough anchor for the job to me, that’s why I forked out a whopping $285.00 for my Mantus 45lb anchor to protect my $100k+ investment in my boat. Money well spent

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

Perhaps we need a thread on 'best anchoring techniques.'

The number of times I've seen boaters dump anchor and chain from the bow (while still going forward)... maybe back down.... maybe put on a snubber...

You never thrown a running anchor???

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

Perhaps we need a thread on 'best anchoring techniques.'

Best technique for me has always been a bit of extra scope and then drift set.

But that was with a good anchor like my old CQR.

This technique seems to work with my new gen anchor also

Video is when I had the CQR hooked up.

I remember it well because I had just been online letting the same folks here on CF know that I didn't need a new gen anchor yet

Nicer weather in 2nd video. Same technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHt7ocBZKms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFoM2zVYkxY

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Eagle ITA

Maybe you didn't read the first post, the question asked in this thread is just that

True! But still. As pointed out. Get the right tool for the job, small change in the bigger scheme of things.

[Eagle ITA]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

True! But still. As pointed out. Get the right tool for the job, small change in the bigger scheme of things.