Sailing Adelaide to France/England in time for Christmas

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Arion1234

............

You will need to be resilient and resourceful. I have met people who succeeded in similar challenges, but consider them to be extraordinary people. The cruising world, is full of extraordinary characters. Perhaps you will measure up, nobody on this forum can say. Only you. It is your decision and you have to accept the ultimate responsibility for your safety. .............

Your complete post was worthwhile reading but the quoted part is especially important IMO.

I had an acquaintance who in his twenties, build a 21' plywood Wharram Tiki catamaran in Perth and sailed it to Darwin (solo). He decided it was wise to get some help for the next leg to Indonesia so he took on two crew. The 21' Tiki was pretty crowded three up so he decided to single hand after the first landfall in Indonesia.

Last I heard, he sailed on solo through the Indian ocean to east coast of South Africa where he was undecided whether to return to Fremantle or continue towards the Atlantic.

An extraordinary chap who looked and acted like a very modest ordinary guy except perhaps more self assured than most. Not the sort to write a book about it afterwards.

Almost anyone would have said what he did was impossible!

[Cliffhanger]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

The most dangerous piece of equipment you can have on a boat is a calendar.

There is a lot of truth in that statement. Let the weather decide when you go, not a calendar.

The problem with the route you suggest is that prevailing winds blow from the west and can be ferocious. Smashing into big waves the whole way across the Indian Ocean doesn't sound like much fun to me. You are basically doing the "Brouwer route" in reverse (Google it if you haven't heard of it.) Have a look at what it is doing at the moment.

https://www.windy.com/-Show---add-mo...400,3,m:YcaiQA

I'd want a very good boat to do that trip and lots of sailing experience in big seas.....actually, I probably wouldn't do it at all. I'd go around the top of Australia, across to Sumatra and to Madagascar and down to South Africa. It would be longer but then without a calendar, who cares?

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

The most dangerous piece of equipment you can have on a boat is a calendar. Airplanes work to time tables.

Small airplanes. If you absolitely have to be there at a specific date/time... drive or fly commercially LOL

My 2 cents. Your proposed voyage isn't even a good pipe dream. Sorry. Besides taking on a long tough trip you'll have a new to you used boat without any knowledge of how it will actually sail and break down, add covid 19 and you have no idea if you can even enter any country as you go.

[barryglewis]

Sensible advice from Arion1234. We have certainly benefited from Graham's advice and help over the years!

Originally Posted by Arion1234

Hi Yellowbeard. You must forgive the facetious answers from some members here. Some people are always ruder on internet forums than they would be in person, according to research I have read. I am sure they are all nice folk when you meet them. You asked for constructive advice so I will attempt to give it to you. That Duncanson 35 can certainly sail to Europe, and looks to be a particularly well-fitted out vessel, including the self-steering windvane and the dyform rigging, though the owner did not say how old the rigging was. I suspect you could get on this vessel and sail with minimal preparation of the boat. The current owner might assist you, being an engineer. How much of a shakedown you'd need only you can determine.



Your proposal to get to Europe by Christmas, however, seems a bit ambitious. If you left in early September and sailed non-stop from Adelaide to Cape Town, but going up into the SE tradewinds in the Indian Ocean, passing south of Cocos Keeling and Mauritius, then diving down to Cape Town, you might get there by sometime in November. If something broke, you could divert to the islands enroute. If you were tough, a week in Cape Town could see you on your way, say late November, but you'd still arrive in Europe after Christmas, probably January or February, which are often the stormiest months, I am told, though a landfall in Portugal might ease the pain.



You would still have missed Christmas, though, so perhaps you'd consider 'Christmas in July' as a compromise? You'd still need to leave Adelaide soon and sail non stop across the Indian Ocean, to get south of Madagascar and out of the cyclone belt by the end of October, but you could stop in Durban or Richards Bay, then go on to Cape Town in January, a better season for rounding the Cape of Good Hope. It is not a fun place in early spring. Depart Cape Town in late February and make landfall in Europe late May or June, sailing via St Helena, and the Azores.



There are two things to consider when planning an ocean voyage, the seasons and the prevailing winds. You want the wind aft of the beam as much as possible on a small boat, hence the suggestion to sail up into lower latitudes in the Indian Ocean and catch the SE trade winds. In the Atlantic, you would take the SE trades again until crossing the equator at about 25 degrees west, then beat to windward across the NE trades until meeting the westerlies that will take you to Europe via the Azores. That way you avoid the tropical Indian ocean in cyclone season and the northern Atlantic in winter.



Some might say it is too ambitious a voyage for sailors without blue-water experience, but only you can decide if you are tough enough. Such a long voyage with minimal stops does add to the challenge. But if you made it to Durban intact, I think the rest of your voyage would be a pleasure.



You will need to be resilient and resourceful. I have met people who succeeded in similar challenges, but consider them to be extraordinary people. The cruising world, is full of extraordinary characters. Perhaps you will measure up, nobody on this forum can say. Only you. It is your decision and you have to accept the ultimate responsibility for your safety. The ocean teaches one that quickly. Modern communications can keep you in touch and even attempt rescue, but essentially you are alone and have to be tough enough to deal with it. Some parts of your route are very remote and you might perish, if your ship goes down, before rescue can be effected. Accepting this risk is part of the adventure.



I salute your sense of adventure and wish you luck.


PS: On this sort of boat you can expect to average about 100 miles a day at sea, over the course of a long voyage. So, about 12,000 miles to Europe equals 120 days at sea.

[barryglewis]

Sorry,
Signature still wrong, currently in Nuku Hiva Marquesas isles French Polynesia

[DeValency]

The most constructive feedback I can give you is simply to forget it.
Nevertheless, nice try

Originally Posted by Yellowbeard83

Hi all. I'm new here and as a typical newbie I'm diving straight into the hardest possible challenge. Well to hell with you all! I'm having bloody Christmas in Europe.

So here's the sitch: my buddy and I wanna go see our loved ones for chrissy. He's from Manchester, and I'm Aussie but my girlfriend is from the south of France near Bordeaux. He lives in Adelaide and he's just joined a sailing crew. I am a Sydney boy and my family has a long history of sailing. I haven't done it in a while but it's definitely in my blood. We're both around 30yrs old, and fit.

I'm not waiting to see if maybe I can get a ridiculously overpriced flight in December, that is if international flights are even back on by then. So we're sailing and that's that. Apparently those 2 Dutch backpackers did it or are in the middle of doing it (any word on that voyage actually?)

Now I've done some reading on these forums, and it seems the best option if leaving this Australian summer would be to go west to South Africa, maybe stopping at a few islands on the way like Cocos, Chagos, Mauritius. After that I have no idea.

Of course we need a boat, and would like to know a ballpark figure of how much to spend for something that can make that journey. We'd be buying in Adelaide.

Lastly there's the issue of docking in Europe, but I think England would be the best bet then I can peel off to France somehow via land.

Eagerly awaiting your suggestions me harties!! Only constructive feedback please, my mind is made up

[capn ken]

Originally Posted by barryglewis

Sensible advice from Arion1234. We have certainly benefited from Graham's advice and help over the years!

Excellent advice

[RaymondR]

It's a great idea, pick up a cheap clipper, crew her, sail S down into the roaring fourties, round the cape and up the Atlantic, you'll be home in no time. The grain ships from SA to London did it all the time.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

It's a great idea, pick up a cheap clipper, crew her, sail S down into the roaring fourties, round the cape and up the Atlantic, you'll be home in no time. The grain ships from SA to London did it all the time.

Good point, and this one is in Adelaide now. Not sure if she's for sale, but for the right price, anything is possible.

[RaymondR]

Coat of paint and a couple of telephone poles and she'll be ready to go.

The wheat clippers made one trip each year plus unloading of ballast in SA, which was often cobble stones, and loading at a number of ports. They had very minimal crews and worked them like dogs. There is a good book on it by Eric Newby called The Last Great Grain Race. They were still economically viable until WW2 when they fell into disuse because their high visibility made them too vulnerable to Axis submarines and commerce raiders.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Arion1234

PS: On this sort of boat you can expect to average about 100 miles a day at sea, over the course of a long voyage. So, about 12,000 miles to Europe equals 120 days at sea.

I'd respectfully suggest that you're not going to average anything like 100 Miles a day in a 35 footer going the westward 12000 mile direct route. There will be a number of days-long storms in which you'll do well not to lose a lot of ground. And calms, of course. Or, if you go the route on which you stand a chance of maintaining that speed, it's substantially further than 12000 Miles.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

I'd respectfully suggest that you're not going to average anything like 100 Miles a day in a 35 footer going the westward 12000 mile direct route. There will be a number of days-long storms in which you'll do well not to lose a lot of ground. And calms, of course. Or, if you go the route on which you stand a chance of maintaining that speed, it's substantially further than 12000 Miles.

Yep, the Duncs are good, but not THAT good.