Seco South. Florida

[uncle stinkybob]

Anybody ever do business with them? Looking to perhaps have them make my anchor rode, prices seem good. Good? Bad? quality.

[skipmac]

I wasn't quiet sure what you meant by "make my anchor rode" so looked at their web site. It appears that making an anchor rode means splicing rope to chain.

My first concern, I didn't see anywhere on their website mention of what kind of chain. Is it US made Acco, Brand-Chinese, or ??? Since you will be trusting the safety of you and your boat to the anchor I would want to know more about what they use.

The next question I have is how they "make" an anchor rode. From the photos I saw it looks like they just eye splice the rope to the last link of the chain, directly onto the chain without even a thimble. If that is how they do it I would reject that option immediately. An eye splice at that point will put all the load right on that one, little loop of rope which could easily wear through in a bad blow with the boat surging a lot. Much better is a rope/chain splice where the rope is woven through about a foot of the end of the chain, dispersing the load and wear points.

Last thing, its relatively simple to splice rope to chain. You might want to buy chain and rope and do it yourself. It's a good skill to add to your repertoire.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I wasn't quiet sure what you meant by "make my anchor rode" so looked at their web site. It appears that making an anchor rode means splicing rope to chain.

My first concern, I didn't see anywhere on their website mention of what kind of chain. Is it US made Acco, Brand-Chinese, or ??? Since you will be trusting the safety of you and your boat to the anchor I would want to know more about what they use.

The next question I have is how they "make" an anchor rode. From the photos I saw it looks like they just eye splice the rope to the last link of the chain, directly onto the chain without even a thimble. If that is how they do it I would reject that option immediately. An eye splice at that point will put all the load right on that one, little loop of rope which could easily wear through in a bad blow with the boat surging a lot. Much better is a rope/chain splice where the rope is woven through about a foot of the end of the chain, dispersing the load and wear points.

Last thing, its relatively simple to splice rope to chain. You might want to buy chain and rope and do it yourself. It's a good skill to add to your repertoire.

From what I have gathered that type of splice is used to prevent hang ups in the windlass, if the type you are talking about will work in a windlass like a Lewmar V700G I would agree but I don't know. If you think it will work I will investigate it. I agree about learning to splice and have started that process but don't trust my own work yet. Also I'm busy as hell, installing new windlass, new chartplot, new autohelm, other small repairs on the boat before I can get out to cruise for a month or two. I was taking the easy, lazy way out. I agree about what the chain is. I had heard that this was a problematic chinese chain but couldn't remember for sure so thought I would ask here. I'm thinking I will go elsewhere and know what I'm getting, G43. Thanks for your response

[Frankly]

I bought a set of replacement standing rigging (316 SS) for Cbreeze. Seco was also the original supplier to IP so they have all the numbers. Fair price, quality materials, and quick delivery.

As to 3 strand to chain splices get a copy of Brion Toss's Riggers Apprentice. For high tensile chain where link size can be small compared to the matching 3 strand he describes what he calls an "irony splice". I have found it a lot easier than Bryan indicates.

The secret to rope to chain splice (no thimble) is to get the splice tight enough around the first link that there will be no movement between the strands and chain. This will make the next link where the movement/flexing will happen.

Doing it this way for over 20 years and never a problem. Keep and eye on the splice condition and replace every 5 or so years (YMMV). When I replace/ open the splice up to check on chafing there never is any.

[skipmac]

Hi USB,

The other type of splice also runs through a windlass, possibly better than the eye splice used by Seco. There's a picture and instructions here.

Splicing: Multiplait rope to chain splice - Sailing Today

Compare this to the eye splice. The eye splice not only has a much higher risk of chafe but the tight turn around the chain link also creates a stress point and will be a very weak point in the rode.

I do understand about the time factor. I have so many things to do on the boat I have to make a list of my lists. Sometimes you just have to prioritize and spend your time where it pays the best. However, I would put a high priority on anything to do with anchors and anchoring. One place you want to get it right.

[Frankly]

Keep in mind that for the three strand splices there are actually 6 strands carrying the load at the supposedly "weak point" where it wraps around the chain link (assuming you tension it correctly).

Brian claims to have tester his "irony splice" to 100% of the 3 strand breaking strength.

The 3 strand back braid splice is usually called a Crown Splice. Works fine on regular link chain. What I used until I learned the irony version.

[Frankly]

My version of Brian Toss's irony splice.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi USB,

The other type of splice also runs through a windlass, possibly better than the eye splice used by Seco. There's a picture and instructions here.

Splicing: Multiplait rope to chain splice - Sailing Today

Compare this to the eye splice. The eye splice not only has a much higher risk of chafe but the tight turn around the chain link also creates a stress point and will be a very weak point in the rode.

I do understand about the time factor. I have so many things to do on the boat I have to make a list of my lists. Sometimes you just have to prioritize and spend your time where it pays the best. However, I would put a high priority on anything to do with anchors and anchoring. One place you want to get it right.

Thats a nice link, thanks! Yes I agree about getting the ground tackle right. I've done everything new, Mantus anchor, Mantus swivel, Mantus bow roller, new Lewmar windlass and really trying to go the best I can, so I really like the splice style you suggest. I will learn to do it myself and change mine over to it as time and skill come to me. Thanks for sharing the wisdom!

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by Frankly

My version of Brian Toss's irony splice.

wow, thats a really good looking splice. I'll learn that one to as time allows. Thanks for sharing that!

[skipmac]

Have been reading posts from Brian Toss and he makes an interesting claim; one that is counter intuitive to me and counter to what I have read in the past.

He states that a long rope/chain splice where the rope strands are woven into a multiple links of the chain is weaker than a splice that wraps around just the one link at the end, preferably his "traditional irony splice" but even the standard eye splice he claims is better.

He reasoning is that with the long, woven splice the rope strands pull out of the chain when tested to maximum load. I have never heard of this as a concern and in my experience never seen the slightest movement in a long rope/chain splice. Also, all I have ever read and learned about ropes is quite clear that knots are much weaker than splices because of the sharp turns and bends the rope makes in a knot vs the long, gradual turns used to make a splice. Both the irony splice and the eye splice onto the end link of the chain result in a very small radius loop of rope around the chain which to me should be a weak point.

Anyone have any comments or information on this?

[Frankly]

What little info I have run across about actual testing to failure, the failure for strands around a chain link is indeed the weak point where the failure does occur. The point when you look at the numbers is (with a proper splice) the tension is at near the destruction point of everything in the system.

Elongated chain links, cracks in the chain, bent shackle pins. The fact that you have 6 strands taking the load at this point has got to be a big reason for this.

Note on the irony splice, there are only 4 strands around the chain link (contrary info).

I don't think anyone is going to get a thimble to run smoothly around a rope/chain gypsy. If you are interested in a smooth transition then direct rope to chain is your only choice. Just pick your poison and keep an eye on it and get that splice tight around the chain link to avoid chafe issues. That last item is not real intuitive but most most actual experience would indicate that is how it works out in the real.

For my hurricane anchoring set up I still use eye splices with thimbles and shackle.

[skipmac]

The more I research rope/chain splices the more confused I get and the gladder I am that I'm using all chain rode.