The morality of interactions with the locals

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

People often ask of me: "what is the strangest country you've visited." I suppose they are expecting the response to be Vanuatu, or Cambodia, or UAE or something.

My response is always truthfully, if not accurately, "California."

Change that spelling to "Kalifornia". The Communist enclave in the U.S.A.

[Perfect Ride]

Our rules of interaction include the following:



Listen and watch to understand their culture and traditions. Talk with other cruisers who have been in the areas before.

Honor what you learn from watching and listening as you best can.

(some times gifts are ok, other times they can create embarrassment)



Offer your skills and knowledge in the true meaning of friendship: mechanical help, electrical help, cooking help, boat repair, sewing, digging, construction, what every you have skills in offer your time and support and training. Teaching skills is often more valuable than performing the repair.



We have found these practices to get us invited into the most authentic relationships and experiences with locals often resulting in enduring relationships through social media.



Trade based on the values of the locals, not your values.

If you feel that you want to offer more do it later as a gift if customs support that.

Again: we listen and watch first and foremost.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by TigerPaws

I rarely ask the locals for anything and in general I avoid them, I live on my boat because I want little to do with my neighbors and even less from the locals.
<snip>


Then they leave and whatever they build goes to pieces because the locals don't care to maintain it.

Why bother, like the Prime Directive leave the locals alone.

I give you credit for revealing that, as I suspect some will be along to jump all over you. To each their own.


You are right though, in many developing countries what is provided, built, and given to the locals is often left to rot...or, just as often, stolen piece by piece.


Sometimes it's that they don't know how to maintain things, sometimes that they don't care to, sometimes it costs too much. Generally though they could if they wanted to, but they don't.

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I give you credit for revealing that, as I suspect some will be along to jump all over you. To each their own.

You are right though, in many developing countries what is provided, built, and given to the locals is often left to rot...or, just as often, stolen piece by piece.

Sometimes it's that they don't know how to maintain things, sometimes that they don't care to, sometimes it costs too much. Generally though they could if they wanted to, but they don't.

Thanks, the key is that most of the locals do not want what the modernized west thinks they should have.

Most people simply want to be left alone.

[tomcone]

I am finding the thread so far to be reasonable, but unspecific. I have bought mulas from Kuna. Have traded with rice, flour, outboard motor oil, bic lighters, fishing line, charging cell phones, ...
What have you found to be respectfully of value to indigenous people that make their lives better without giving cash or 1st world artifacts?

[Exile]

Some friends of mine who sail to the Bahamas every winter always bring school supplies. They collaborate with the local teachers/administrators to figure out what's most needed & appropriate.

[JanetGroene]

This thread talks mostly about income disparity but there is another angle. Even in affluent locales, locals resent visitors who arrive with their own accommodations. The difference in hospitality begins with tourism promotion folks who are funded, after all, by hotels, resorts and restaurants. They are not as happy to see liveaboards as they are to welcome folks who need rooms and meals.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by JanetGroene

This thread talks mostly about income disparity but there is another angle. Even in affluent locales, locals resent visitors who arrive with their own accommodations. The difference in hospitality begins with tourism promotion folks who are funded, after all, by hotels, resorts and restaurants. They are not as happy to see liveaboards as they are to welcome folks who need rooms and meals.

You are assuming that cruisers prefer to visit tourism destinations where the locals depend on that income.

A boat allows you to visit those hidden gems where logistics have made it a difficult tourism destination (so far.....)

Those are becoming harder and harder to find...
Proud, Subsistance farmers and fishermen, curious to meet you but with little financial interest in your arrival.

Once that area gets its first resort, things change and the credit card tourists and cruiser demand and pay for services and the locals start to change.

Usually nice for the next 10 to 15 years

By the time the 3rd generation locals of a marketed tourism destination take over, it is a place I call a pit stop to provision and get away from as soon as possible

By then what you experience are Group Tours and locals who only see your wallet!

I can buy wild Tiger prawns at either $3/kilo or $20/kilo just by getting away from the tourist destinations.

[daletournier]

It's interesting how we often assume many that have less "stuff" than us are poorer than us?

I've left a number of places, usually small villages in places like the Philippines where I've thought to my self "I'm poorer than them". Ive been invited into small homes to share food by families that have very little money BUT have community, religion, shelter, food and simplicity, they don't have 9-5 jobs and 30 year mortgages.

Western white arrogance makes the assumption these people have less,generally we apply judgement unconsciously as we are blinded by our own beliefs and values.

Where I've seen true poverty is in big cities like Manila and Capetown, not only do you see many with no money but also no community, family, no faith and the worst of all, no hope.

Generally if your a person that gets along with most in your own world you will get along with most in other places, the same qualities of decency apply regardless of where you are.

One last thought that I try to keep in mind in regards to money is... where I was born, who I was born to and the time I was born in has more to with me having money than who I am, I have more due to circumstance, and many I meet that have little money have less due to circumstance as well, I'm not better than them, I don't think I'm better but I also don't apologise for having more (money).

[mjaymc]

For God so loved the world that He gave his own begotten son, so whoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life. John 3:16 Give something more useful than tobacco and flashlight batteries. Or don't. It won't lead to annihilation.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I give you credit for revealing that, as I suspect some will be along to jump all over you. To each their own.


You are right though, in many developing countries what is provided, built, and given to the locals is often left to rot...or, just as often, stolen piece by piece.


Sometimes it's that they don't know how to maintain things, sometimes that they don't care to, sometimes it costs too much. Generally though they could if they wanted to, but they don't.

Ive seen this phonomena many times in Guatemala. A core reason is that often the do-gooders do what makes them feel good, often with little involvement from the local community...after all they are too naive to know what they need right. The do-gooders often do not undertand the needs of the community, the culture, nor really care to, nor make any substantial plans for maintainance. Thus it fails.

The visitors rush in, do what makes them feel good, have a big celebration then leave. Its a bit of a mastrubatorial activity...they do what makes them feel good, but dont really do anything effective for anyone else.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by daletournier

It's interesting how we often assume many that have less "stuff" than us are poorer than us?

I've left a number of places, usually small villages in places like the Philippines where I've thought to my self "I'm poorer than them". Ive been invited into small homes to share food by families that have very little money BUT have community, religion, shelter, food and simplicity, they don't have 9-5 jobs and 30 year mortgages.

Western white arrogance makes the assumption these people have less,generally we apply judgement unconsciously as we are blinded by our own beliefs and values.

Where I've seen true poverty is in big cities like Manila and Capetown, not only do you see many with no money but also no community, family, no faith and the worst of all, no hope.

Generally if your a person that gets along with most in your own world you will get along with most in other places, the same qualities of decency apply regardless of where you are.

One last thought that I try to keep in mind in regards to money is... where I was born, who I was born to and the time I was born in has more to with me having money than who I am, I have more due to circumstance, and many I meet that have little money have less due to circumstance as well, I'm not better than them, I don't think I'm better but I also don't apologise for having more (money).

Extremely important observations Dale, and very well written. Humility is the most important of our "assets" that we need to remember to bring along on our travels.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Ive seen this phonomena many times in Guatemala. A core reason is that often the do-gooders do what makes them feel good, often with little involvement from the local community...after all they are too naive to know what they need right. The do-gooders often do not undertand the needs of the community, the culture, nor really care to, nor make any substantial plans for maintainance. Thus it fails.

The visitors rush in, do what makes them feel good, have a big celebration then leave. Its a bit of a mastrubatorial activity...they do what makes them feel good, but dont really do anything effective for anyone else.

It's an all too human, but also all too selfish motivation, and all too often under the guise of well-intended selflessness.

[Freemind]

Originally Posted by daletournier

It's interesting how we often assume many that have less "stuff" than us are poorer than us?

If I only had a dime for how many times I've seen this attitude from big city people in the USA I'd be set for life. "Flyover country" , "county people ", "people in the south".
I don't mean to derail this excellent thread.

It just struck a cord.

[john61ct]

Yes, I know thousands of "poor little rich boys" (and women) who I genuinely feel sorry for, truly abusive even traumatic family lives both growing up and in adulthood, likely to never know real happiness or fulfillment in their focus on status and material "stuff".

And thousands of barely-subsistence farmers in very-low income societies whose lives are enviably full of the best things in life.

Interactions between such disparate cultures, even within one nation, should always feature the visitor striving for as much humility and respect for the hosts as possible, seeking to listen and learn not speak or teach, to be helped in non-material ways, and if desiring (from whatever motivations) to help materially, to first become enough part of the community to get to where they will be trusting enough to reveal what they want & need, let them take the initiative and guide the process.

Attending weddings in cultures that are welcoming of outsiders is a great way to see how they like to party,

using that as a template for sponsoring future feasts makes for a great way to show appreciation to your hosts.