The morality of interactions with the locals

[StuM]

Originally Posted by TigerPaws

Change that spelling to "Kalifornia". The Communist enclave in the U.S.A.

AKA The Land of Fruits and Nuts?

[laika]

Far better to mix it up, making friends and business with the locals, then to hang back on the boat, stay at all-inclusives, or, worse, not go at all. As others have said, a little humility and deference go a long way.

What's the alternative? Living our lives in our little bubbles? That doesn't even work on the internet, much less real life

P.S. I love all-inclusives.

[Streetcar]

Visiting Yacht tourism is important for developing countries at macro economic levels but is absolutely critical at micro levels where small and isolated communities have developed relationships of mutual need with migrating cruising yachts.

I was recently part of a study team which found that visiting yachts contribute FJD $60m to the Fijian economy. This significant contribution is based on spending of foreign exchange directly into businesses and Government services - unlike general tourism where most of the spending gets nowhere near the country.

However the real impact story is at very local levels where small (and sometimes isolated) communities develop specialised skills and services to interact with and support the yachts. This interaction gives them much needed cash and offers them the opportunity to develop into yachting service centres.

This relationship is two way. There were countless reports of passing yacht crews helping out isolated communities in times of need... repairing generators, supplying desal water, assistance after cyclones etc etc.

Although there are always going to be some negative effects of yachting tourism on developing countries and isolated communities, we found that these were relatively small in comparison the to the benefits. At the end of the day its all about being a decent guest and respecting their property, culture and values.

The view from Fijians living and working in the areas impacted by yachting was overwhelmingly to keep coming and stay longer to enjoy more of their country.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Exile

Extremely important observations Dale, and very well written. Humility is the most important of our "assets" that we need to remember to bring along on our travels.

[emoji106]

[jkindredpdx]

I often recommend the book "Savages" by Joe Kane..."hilarious, heartbreaking, and thrilling". https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/b...9780679740193/

BTW, we carry desirable items for kids like crayons, pencils, etc to give out... one day a young Peruvian-Amazon girl asked for the very nice silver ballpoint pen in my shirt pocket. I reluctantly gave it to her. She turned and ran away, but returned with her gift to me, a beautiful handmade bracelet.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Streetcar

The view from Fijians living and working in the areas impacted by yachting was overwhelmingly to keep coming and stay longer to enjoy more of their country.

Of course those locals who are impacted or "profiting" from yacht visits will be supportive
....but I believe at an ever increasing cost to their traditional ways.

Like the allure of big cities (Manila).... tourism sucks the young away from their simple province life, in search of promised rewards.

In the cities, they breathe polluted air, feast on McDonalds and junk food, rather than eating thier catch of fresh fish and grown vegetables.
They develop bad skin, bad habits as their attitude becomes more opportunistic.

Tourism in those places paint the rosy picture for the young living in the provinces, to market and entice them to leave the village.

Our pretty yachts underline just how fantastic that opportunity can be.

The smart ones leave after a few years, but how many end up in Brothels, or turn to crime/drugs to service this marketed dream?

I don't have an answer as this has been happening for centuries, but morality is an empty word when describing the actions of impressionable people....be they tourists or locals.

[Gruz]

The morality of interactions with the locals


locals.... you mean like this one.....


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-drivers.html

[marcus02]

Europeans have been trampling on indigenous cultures for centuries. Why stop now?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by marcus02

Europeans have been trampling on indigenous cultures for centuries. Why stop now?

Might want to do a little historical research. Every (and I mean EVERY) successful civilization has got there by spreading and either displacing or incorporating other civilizations. It happens on both large and small scales (by successful, in the sense of having power not morally good or bad).

Europeans have also been on the losing end plenty of times (do you not think they felt trampled when the mongols were at the gates of Rome or when Eastern Europe fell to the Ottomans?)...just recent history that has fallen heavily in their favor and it happens to coincide with the ability to travel to and influence larger areas than ever before..other than that nothing new or special about it.

Not saying European countries are without sin but blanket statements like this are just silly when looking at factual data.

Speaking of the Ottomans...Greece, Hungary, Romania have rich and fascinating cultures...without the Ottomans, those cultures would not exist as we know them. Making sausage can be messy and ugly (and not pleasant for the pig) but the end results can be incredible.

At what point do you freeze time and say this is the perfect culture and should never change?

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

At what point do you freeze time and say this is the perfect culture and should never change?

Effectively that is what UN is chartered to do. Borders have been largely agreed upon, for good or bad (bad, if you are Papuan, for example.) Flow of humans is unique in the animal world, controlled by passports and immigration limits.


Who are "the locals"? If we want zero impact on them, we cannot visit them at all. We cannot lend a hand when a tsunami or cyclone destroys their homes. We cannot appeal to Useless Nations to free Tibet, or free Papua. We cannot share new outboard technology, new agricultural methods, or new medical discoveries.


In the big picture, cruisers interfacing with locals has far lesser impact than geopolitical and natural events. Even if "locals" didn't meet a single cruiser, they'd still now have outboards- and what has had a greater impact than outboards on lifestyles and ecology? OK, the western concept of cash and income, but I'm sure everyone gets the point.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

In the big picture, cruisers interfacing with locals has far lesser impact than geopolitical and natural events. Even if "locals" didn't meet a single cruiser, they'd still now have outboards- and what has had a greater impact than outboards on lifestyles and ecology? OK, the western concept of cash and income, but I'm sure everyone gets the point.

For some isolated island cultures, the outboard may be a bigger impact but for most, I would say the cell phone is even bigger (and far more pervasive in passing culture around).

Go to most any 3rd world country...they may not have electricity, flush toilets, they may transport goods by donkey drawn wagon..but you can bet they will have a smart phone in hand.

And you can bet on that smart phone they aren't googling the latest local aboriginal dance moves.

[Gruz]

The morality of interactions with the locals....



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-attack.html

[Exile]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Might want to do a little historical research. Every (and I mean EVERY) successful civilization has got there by spreading and either displacing or incorporating other civilizations. It happens on both large and small scales (by successful, in the sense of having power not morally good or bad).

Europeans have also been on the losing end plenty of times (do you not think they felt trampled when the mongols were at the gates of Rome or when Eastern Europe fell to the Ottomans?)...just recent history that has fallen heavily in their favor and it happens to coincide with the ability to travel to and influence larger areas than ever before..other than that nothing new or special about it.

Not saying European countries are without sin but blanket statements like this are just silly when looking at factual data.

Speaking of the Ottomans...Greece, Hungary, Romania have rich and fascinating cultures...without the Ottomans, those cultures would not exist as we know them. Making sausage can be messy and ugly (and not pleasant for the pig) but the end results can be incredible.

At what point do you freeze time and say this is the perfect culture and should never change?

Great points. I would only add that at what point do we recognize that displacing or incorporating other civilizations, however we judge its morality in hindsight or in modern times, is simply the nature of humankind.

[Tricolor]

I walked on a beautiful beach on Brazils Atlantic Ocean coast. There I met with a local fishermen laying in the shade enjoying a beer. I asked him what he did for a living, he explained to me that' early in the morning he went fishing in his canoa and after a few hours he catched enough fish for his needs and went back ashore to partly trade his catch for some rice, beans, beef and a few beers. The remainder of the day he stayed on the beach enjoying his beautiful live. As I did not understand his way of life I explained to him that' if he catched more fish every day in a short time he could buy a second canoa and equally catch again more fish and buy more canoas and become wealthy. He asked me, but what i do when I' m wealthy. I explained to him that', for example, huh then could stay the whole day on the beach drinking beers.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Exile

Great points. I would only add that at what point do we recognize that displacing or incorporating other civilizations, however we judge its morality in hindsight or in modern times, is simply the nature of humankind.

We just need to be aware that such interactions can still have a negative or positive intention. To oversimplify, Romans conquered but incorporated. Denizens of new provinces had the ability to become citizens and rise up in the social, military and political ranks. Most of the victims of European imperialism were just that: victims. They were conquered, disenfranchised and we still see the negative effects of that everyday, worldwide.

It's happened both ways again and again throughout history. Most of us here are descended either genetically or culturally from the British isles and we'd all be much much different if they hadn't been invaded and incorporated several time thoughout their history.

On the other hand, I still seek to convert American cruisers, proselytizing to them every chance I get: socialized medicine and poutine...it's where it's at.