Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[David Hughes]

Originally Posted by boatman61

True.. its a shame that the customer chose's an expensive comfortable stylish saloon to lol around in comfortably.. as opposed to something so integral to ones survival and protection of ones investment as the steering..

Can't see car manufacturers getting away with blatantly unsafe steering or brakes..

And they're advertised as Blue Water Yachts.. gorra larf..

What I don't get is the tendency to blame this poor father for what may or may not be a design or manufacturing flaw, as if picking a Hanse with a nice saloon makes him negligent somehow. Most normal people who buy boats aren't surveyors or anywhere close. The sea gods rolled their dice and he crapped out, but it's not his fault. Jeez. As someone earlier wrote, when it's man vs. sea, and the sea really tries, man will lose.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Patmar

We completed the remaining 1500 miles to St Lucia steering with a drogue made of warps, fenders and an anchor. It took a while learning how to set the sails to get our yacht to go downwind.

That's incredible! Glad to hear it can be done for so long.

How many days to do the 1,500?

How did you get in to Rodney Bay in the end?

My "overdue" date is the passage time at 2 knots and I provision for that (hard tack emergency supplies). What speed were you doing?

I have a drogue but would think it may slow the boat too much.

Did you feel like hitting the Red Button?

[Seaadventurers]

Originally Posted by Sandero

The OP was kinda dodgy and not forthcoming with ALL the facts. It appears that he was paranoid that someone would take his boat... perhaps not unreasonable considering the laws related to marine salvage.

Did they have a life raft? I may have missed that? what sort of experience did this fella have before he set out to cross the ocean? Why didn't he give more info about the boat? Going online to a sailing forum the way he did seems a bid odd to me.

This story doesn't add up to me.

Please read the story before commenting. This family is going through hell and needs support....not you questioning how they performed!

[Scout 30]

At the start of the thread the OP only calls his boat a 53 yacht. The 53' Hanse is the 531.
https://www.hanseyachts.com/media/do...e-531-1631.pdf
[url]

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

but a spade rudder can be built every bit as strong or stronger than a skeg hung rudder.

Yeah we here this argument all the time when this is brought up yet it's never done on mass produced sailboats it would seem. A skeg hung rudder is best, not just for safety but for directional stability. As for those twin blade hung rudders those are even worse just double trouble, they're also more likely to hit something, pick up ropes, nets and lobster pot lines and what ever else that might be out there. Also, you gotta protect the boat from water ingress should the spade rudder with shaft fail, else your boat could possibly sink. This was precisely what happened to a Sweden yachts a few years ago, and those aren't exactly mass produced either.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Yeah we here this argument all the time when this is brought up yet it's never done on mass produced sailboats it would seem. A skeg hung rudder is best, not just for safety but for direction.

OK, let's carefully compare mass produced sailboat skeg hung rudders vs mass produced sailboat spade rudders. Wait a minute, are there any mass produced boats with skeg hung rudders?

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Paul L

OK, let's carefully compare mass produced sailboat skeg hung rudders vs mass produced sailboat spade rudders. Wait a minute, are there any mass produced boats with skeg hung rudders?

I see we're you're going with this, the second argument you always hear.

There are enough sailboats out there with skeg hung rudders, not just that, there's more of them out there, and they have been around for longer as well. Disclaimer: I don't think they have been passed by spade rudders in numbers just yet, though I could be wrong.

Since it's mass produced one would think they would have learnt by now how to get it right. Of course if it's mass produced they wanna keep the cost down, still, should be possible to get it right without adding to much cost to the boat. They appear to afford most everything else.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Boatie I agree with you on the general weak link of the chain spade rudders being built by the large production builders but a spade rudder can be built every bit as strong or stronger than a skeg hung rudder. The builders just choose not to spend the additional money to build a real strong rudder system. Hanse has lots of company when it comes to building a less than robust rudder system but one has to keep in mind that these builders are under a lot of financial pressure to keep their products as inexpensive as possible.

Less than robust is less than acceptable. The bottom line is that if it's too expensive for a boat builder to build a reliable rudder they should not be building boats. This family could have been lost at sea.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Less than robust is less than acceptable. The bottom line is that if it's too expensive for a boat builder to build a reliable rudder they should not be building boats. This family could have been lost at sea.

Generally speaking these boats are built just strong enough. They know how to build them stronger but can't justify the costs. These boats are not really designed for continued offshore use but as long as they are not pushed to hard and sailed in season most of them should be ok for crossing the ocean. He'll you can sail an old Cal 25 around the world or an old Catalina 27, surely any of the newer boats are stronger than these examples. The builders know that a very small % of their boats are used for continuous offshore use while most of them are sailed locally and sit in the marina almost all of the time. I think from a business perspective the builders are making the right decision, no use spending a bunch of money producing bullet proof yachts and sell a few dozen when you can watch your costs carefully and sell hundreds or thousands. Even a well built boat can fail in the right conditions so no guarantee but of course your odds are a lot better buying a higher quality product. It's a free world and everyone gets to make their own choices but even a fool knows high quality and lowest price don't fit together.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Generally speaking these boats are built just strong enough. They know how to build them stronger but can't justify the costs. These boats are not really designed for continued offshore use but as long as they are not pushed to hard and sailed in season most of them should be ok for crossing the ocean. He'll you can sail an old Cal 25 around the world or an old Catalina 27, surely any of the newer boats are stronger than these examples. The builders know that a very small % of their boats are used for continuous offshore use while most of them are sailed locally and sit in the marina almost all of the time. I think from a business perspective the builders are making the right decision, no use spending a bunch of money producing bullet proof yachts and sell a few dozen when you can watch your costs carefully and sell hundreds or thousands. Even a well built boat can fail in the right conditions so no guarantee but of course your odds are a lot better buying a higher quality product. It's a free world and everyone gets to make their own choices but even a fool knows high quality and lowest price don't fit together.

I may be a fool but I'm smart enough not to blame the victim here.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

I see we're you're going with this, the second argument you always hear.

There are enough sailboats out there with skeg hung rudders, not just that, there's more of them out there, and they have been around for longer as well. Disclaimer: I don't think they have been passed by spade rudders in numbers just yet, though I could be wrong.

Since it's mass produced one would think they would have learnt by now how to get it right. Of course if it's mass produced they wanna keep the cost down, still, should be possible to get it right without adding to much cost to the boat. They appear to afford most everything else.

There certainly lots of skeg hung rudders, but I don't think it is a valid comparison to mass produced boats (your words). If current designs had skeg rudders, they would still be built to cost. Even old skeg hung designs had their share of issues. I just watched a friend spend months in the yard beefing up the skeg on his Grand Solei 47. Bob Perry has quiped that there are lots of rudders out there holding up their skegs.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Generally speaking these boats are built just strong enough. They know how to build them stronger but can't justify the costs. These boats are not really designed for continued offshore use but as long as they are not pushed to hard and sailed in season most of them should be ok for crossing the ocean. He'll you can sail an old Cal 25 around the world or an old Catalina 27, surely any of the newer boats are stronger than these examples. The builders know that a very small % of their boats are used for continuous offshore use while most of them are sailed locally and sit in the marina almost all of the time. I think from a business perspective the builders are making the right decision, no use spending a bunch of money producing bullet proof yachts and sell a few dozen when you can watch your costs carefully and sell hundreds or thousands. Even a well built boat can fail in the right conditions so no guarantee but of course your odds are a lot better buying a higher quality product. It's a free world and everyone gets to make their own choices but even a fool knows high quality and lowest price don't fit together.

I do not believe that it would add a great deal to the cost of even a cheap mass produced boat, to build a really bulletproof spade rudder.

It's not really rocket science. It just takes good structural design and adequate dimensions of the elements. Look at Dashew's spade rudders for example. Make in quantities, that would not be all that terribly expensive -- what an extra thousand euros on a 300 000 euro boat?

In my opinion it's a question of priorities and attention to safety-critical details, so reflecting very badly on Hanse and other builders who have built crappy rudders on CE Class "A" boats.


Rudders should simply not fail, and keels should simply not fall off, period. The design task should be to practically exclude such failures. These are components which we need to be able to rely on 100%.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Rudders should simply not fail, and keels should simply not fall off, period. The design task should be to practically exclude such failures. These are components which we need to be able to rely on 100%.

Simply stated and beautifully said.

[stevensuf]

Making keel bolts, through hulls and rudder stock/tangs from titanium rather than stainless would add less than a few hundred dollars to the price of a production boat and none would sink from corrosion problems!

In built obsolescence comes to mind, they are technically making products that in theory are very long lasting, so designing in a few flaws would make a lot of sense!

[weavis]

Guys.

The OP is conducting his search and has the help of several CF members. Its a difficult task and the outcome is uncertain. MarkJ and others in the area are offering their expertise in conjunction with the OP. I apologise for not mentioning others by name who are there, its simply because I dont know who you are.

We would like all that contributed to the search to allow us to finish the story, good or bad here on CF... Nothing worse than a tale with no ending.

We would ask that from this point on that CF members try to remember that the vessel was the home of the family, that their lives were at risk at one point. I can think of little more heartbreaking than having to abandon ship and leave the vessel behind.

From that point of view, can we as CF members just support his efforts, learn from the right things he did and learn from things that James wishes he had done. We have to remember that in the circumstances, with the pressing need to get his family off the boat, in bad weather, its is very difficult to do everything correctly.

He has the most valuable things in his life with him and for that I know he is very grateful.