Waving not drowning?

[torpnr]

This is such a great thread. Full of interesting detail (eg the electrical system upgrades), and wonderfully supportive (and pragmatic) comments from the community (eg JPA Cate). (Sidenote: I should say “as usual” for Jim and Ann, for though I don’t know them at all, I am a long time listener and learner from them!) Thanks Na Mara for sharing. And please keep posting updates.

[Na Mara]

Thanks torpor. My intention is to keep it going all the way through the buildup to the big trip and then through the odyssey itself and for a little while through the immediate aftermath.

Last post was a bit rushed so I didn't have time to go into the nitty gritty of what went wrong with the electrical system install and what went right with the yard.

First thing that went wrong with the install is that I had not appreciated that there is something on the 12 V house circuit immediately upstream of the main breaker switch that is constantly drawing 0.25 A. This meant that in the 3 weeks I was re-homing the dog the temporarily wired up 130Ah engine battery had been run down to 9V. It was lucky we came back to the boat when we did otherwise I would now have a totally dead engine battery. Whatever it is that is drawing the power is cryptically fused by a fuse with the name "aux" and along with the bilge pump and two other items it is deliberately not shutdown when you turn the main breaker off. I have not got the faintest scooby what it is, but whatever it is, it is on 24-7, drawing a quarter of an amp, and may also possibly be behind problem number 2.

Problem number 2 is that the battery protector will not allow the Lithium bank to connect to the main breaker for the 12VDC and thence on to the 12V DC on the boat because it is detecting a short circuit in that portion of the boat's electrical. Now whatever that short circuit is, it is not obvious because when I run that circuit off the engine battery everything on it works as designed. The fault is also upstream of the main breaker as the fault remains even when the main breaker is open. There are only the afore mentioned four fused circuits connected to the battery with the breaker open and one of those is the one that is constantly drawing. Hence my suspicion that problems 1 and 2 have one and the same cause, though I cannot figure out what is connected to the "aux" fuse.

The final problem I ran into was the fact that the inverter charger refused to charge the lithium batteries after I entered in the right configuration. This one has me totally stumped. The inverter charger seems to be working. Indeed, on the standard AGM settings it was charging the the engine battery through the trickle charger. It is also passing through AC current just fine and it is giving the right readings through the VE Bus as can be seen on the VE configuration software on my PC. Even more weirdly the low battery warning light is blinking despite the fact that I can see on that software that the inverter charger is reading the DC voltage from the batteries correctly and that that voltage is not particularly low for these batteries (13.3V). Something has obviously gone wrong with my configuration of the system, but blow me if I know what that is.

The VE Bus BMS assistant is successfully loaded. This program allows the inverter and charger to be disabled by the BMS through the VE bus when ATD respectively ATC are free-floating. To do this the virtual switch must be disabled, which it is.
The batteries are specified as LFP batteries — as recommended by the assistant — with the absorption voltage set to 14.2V and the float voltage set to 13.5V. Charge current is limited to 100Ah, which is the recommended 0.5C for each battery individually. Charge curve is fixed. Absorption and repeated absorption is limited to 1 hour and absorption is repeated every 7 days. There are no other settings that should have any impact on the charger and these are the recommended settings, and yet it does not charge and the low battery light remains on.

I was about to tare my two remaining hairs out, when by a stroke of luck I managed to catch the yard staff who have been avoiding me. We had a meeting where they were very apologetic about everything and where they promised, eye ball to eye ball, to get the boat ready on time for the trip. I will be going down to check progress in the next couple of weeks after we have moved, but assuming that they do what they have said they will do, they have promised to fix the above electrical faults as well.

Honestly I don't care how this all gets done anymore, I just need it done before we leave so hopefully next time I go down I have a new, all singing all dancing, electrical system, among many other things.

The last big item to install is the charging system, which I am going to specify for them right after this post and source the parts.

This time I really, really hope that these people do as they said they would do.

Wish me luck.

[JPA Cate]

Honestly I don't care how this all gets done anymore, I just need it done before we leave so hopefully next time I go down I have a new, all singing all dancing, electrical system, among many other things.

Take a deep breath, mate. You DO care how it is fixed. Take notes. Nothing electrical is forever. Every bit of knowledge you can accumulate will help in the long run, and tracing the wire from the fuse holder to the switchboard should tell you which of your items is drawing the quarter amp. It isn't the labor costs that are the issue, but when you are out on your sabbatical, you don't want to spend weeks waiting for laborers to get to your job. You'll want to play.

Suggest you make a wiring diagram for your boat. Keep it in the ship's log.

Ann

[Na Mara]

Time for the next update.

Doggy is doing really well in his new home. My sister is taking really good care of him and he's getting to do a whole load of stuff he didn't get to do with us here, like chasing deer, meeting other dogs, and spending lots of time just watching over his new domain. Its both lovely to see and a little sad. I miss him a lot but I do appreciate the big gains in freedom and time that not having him has resulted in.

A lot of that time is going into trips to the gym. I'm mid forties now and was not the healthiest I could be. Its just going to be me and my boy a lot of the time on this trip so he needs to be able to count on me and I need to be able to count on myself. I need to minimise the risk of injury or ill health and so I have started training hard for the trip. Dad bod is now mostly gone, I'm comfortably rowing 5 km in just over 20 minutes on the machine and my arthritic left shoulder has been beaten more or less into submission with the weight training. Having had a handful of close calls due to physical and mental exhaustion at sea I want to do everything I can to minimise that risk on this trip.

The yard have upped their game with fixing the boat and things are now progressing well. My trust in them has been somewhat restored. The secret was bypassing the boss and striking up a relationship with one of the guys who actually does the labour. I'm going down to see the boat tomorrow and check on progress.

On thing that I will not be able to do before departure is check the keel bolts. All but one of these is hidden under the fuel tank in the keel sump and to check them a good part of the interior and the tank would have to be removed. I contacted the manufacturer of the boat and questioned them about the construction. The keel is actually integral with the hull with a lead shoe bolted onto the bottom. This reduces the moment of inertia on the bolts from the 4 tons of lead considerably from what it would be for a fin keel of the same weight bolted to the hull. So the loading is considerably less than in a standard keel. On top of this the shoe is bolted on with 11 M20 stainless steel bolts. Each bolt is nearly capable of resisting the maximum shear from the lead shoe on its own. Being a physicist I calculated the maximum static shear and tensile forces on its own and the 11 bolts together ensure a factor of 10 safety margin against these static loads. Dynamic loading will be higher but the safety margin is still way over what it needs to be. The manufacturer basically said that if there is no sign of movement in the joint between the shoe and the keel stub then I should just leave well alone and save some money. I'm going to take that advice despite being a real advocate of checking keelbolts regularly. Hopefully I wont regret that decision.

Finally, and the reason I'm adding to this thread today, we completed the sale of our house today. All the money over and above that needed to pay off the loans is now sitting in our bank. We are now housed in a rental waiting for the off.

The increase in interest rates due to the rise in inflation (nearly 10% here) caused by that nutjob in charge of Russia has meant its going to be harder for us to do the trip than we initially thought whilst still completing the purchase on the home base in Stockholm (recall we wanted to have the security of somewhere to return to given the unsettled times here in Europe). Before it was touch and go whether we could do that solely on the wife's salary. Now its impossible without me also earning at least half what I'm earning now whilst on the trip. Fortunately, I should be able to do that with the job offer I spoke about earlier but if interest rates go significantly higher it starts to get impossible. I think we are ok up to about 8% mortgage rates. At present we are at 3.4% and rising as the central bank here tries to head off inflation. This is the one thing that could really scupper our plans now that we have the house safely sold. If the mortgage rate goes too high I will have to continue working at my present job to get the purchase of the new flat through and that will mean we can't leave this year. And then the window of opportunity in my son's education closes for 3 years.

For the next 9 months I'm going to be watching the interest rate like a hawk.

I'm sitting here hoping for a warm winter and geopolitical stability in our neighbourhood. It galls me to admit it, but to a large extent whether we can do this is or not is now out of my hands.

I hate that!

[JPA Cate]

Ah, Na Mara,
Hard times, for sure. Everyone is concerned about the efforts to slow inflation being to extreme.

However, keep up with the gym work. It will help with however things work out, to be able to rely on your body to take good care of you.

Maybe you can "moonlight" and put more cash together over the winter? Can your son get a job to help with the financing of the trip? This is a great time to involve the whole family in the financial realities, an area in which I certainly could have been a better parent.

As I said months ago, good luck with it. To some extent, you make your luck. Teach yourself a little electric engineering. As a physics teacher, we can assume it is within your capabilities, and practical knowledge that you can use to help others is a big asset to a cruiser.

Ann

[goboatingnow]

I think we shall see a lot more “ crunch “ points in sailing. Here in Greece costs have rocketed. I know when beer here In Greece costs as much as Ireland which has 60 % tax on alcohol that’s things are getting out of control. Labour has rocketed and my marina is now the dearest in all western Greece. People are leaving it daily for cheaper venues.

I’ve no doubt that next year here will bring lots of business failures as the “covid splurge “ fades and tourists rein in spending or dont come at all. You see it now as places are shutting down wholesale for the autumn and winter because they know they have no Greek trade.

Many dreams will be crushed in this process unfortunately

[JPA Cate]

Life gets in the way of many of our decisions. My heart goes out to the Na Mara family because they are so close to getting their Sabbatical, and fulfilling a dream. At the same time it is being so difficult. Imo, this is hard times, about to get harder, and a sailing sabbatical could be so really great for father and son. They both seem to appreciate the richness of the opportunity. If they decide to not go, they will both be mourning the loss of the experience as they envisioned it.

When events like that happen, people of good will work towards a changed goal. I can't think how many times I've had to remind myself nobody promised me a rose garden; while at the same time, I am aware of people who've had a heck of a lot tougher time of it.

Na Mara has the boat; it is almost ready. Maybe they'll have an 8 week summer trip to the Faroes and return, if they cannot have the whole sabbatical. They're so close, maybe a lesser adventure, but still a serious holiday.

Our fates are in our hands till life intervenes.

Ann

[Na Mara]

After checking on the boat I could still see that there is a lot to do. They have done a fair few odd jobs but the important stuff like getting the electrical system working, and the heating on line, have still not been done. I am more than a little disappointed.

The boat is coming out the water in a week or two and as all the boats are being lifted the yard has their hands full for a while. However, if these and other things on the must-be-done-before-departure list are not expedited by the time she hits the water in the spring, I am going to find another yard and give them the business. This is now the last chance for this yard.

[TrentePieds]

NaMara said: "Are we making this harder by planning for our exit strategy upfront rather than just cutting the land lines and heading out?"

I think not. You are paying for as much certainty upon your return to Sweden as you can contrive at this point in time, and you are paying for that certainty with some bum-tightening moments now. I think that's a fair trade-off!

I have been away from Scowegia too long to be able to comment on the financial matters you discuss. But perhaps you can educate me :-)!

I woulda thunk that Malmö is now a suburb of Copenhagen for all intents and purposes and that the property market in Malmö is now an extension of that in Copenhagen? I understand that you've already sold your house there, so my question is no more than a straight-forward request for information.

When you first joined us, I was puzzled why a "NaMara" would post from Malmö, and I think I even commented on it. But now I know. I have fond memories of a flicka or two meself :-)!

Anyway, I wish you the best of voyages and all the luck in the world when you return to Sweden, whether it be to Malmö or to Stockholm. And I say again: You are IMO doing absolutely the right thing by planning so meticulously for your return. As Ann said, we are the captains of our fates - until life intervenes. Just like sailing is pure bliss until Neptune has a hissy-fit. And we just have to live with those possibilities.

All the best to you and your family!

TrentePieds

[carstenb]

NaMara

We are from Denmark and sold everything and left 6 1/2 years ago with no real plan. WE expected to be gone something like 8-10 years.

We also had a dog, a wonderful Scottish Terrier and we waited until old age and sickness took her.

We didn't know if the cruising life would be what we hoped - we might have ended up coming back after only a year or so- But we found it exceeded everything we dreamed of.

Good luck. I hope you truly enjoy it but as some have said here - make sure you fully understand your electrical system - getting it fixed by others once you have left is expensive and they will invariably do a terrible job, forcing you to redo it yourself afterwards,

[goboatingnow]

At the end of the day you must “ make the leap of faith “ you cannot festoon the process with safety nets unless you are very wealthy.

Cut the ties and go

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Fine then sell the villa , buy a suitable house straight away, then you know where u stand. Again 12 months is such a short time that you’ll be back in Sweden in no time

Sell/Keep House:

We did something similar but with no plans to return to our old town. We sold and set the money aside...it's still sitting there 15yr later.

Normally, if the plan was to return to the same location after a short period, hang onto the house (sort of but not exactly like the idea of "sunk cost". There's a lot of transactional costs and where do you store stuff, etc..) but if the big house is getting sold anyway, no need to lock into a new place until you need it.

Not a good idea to become a first time landlord...REMOTELY. Then are complications & stresses as well as carrying costs with owning.

Keep in mind, there is the chance, you love cruising and find a way to keep at it or find some other opportunity outside Stockholm and now this "anchor" will affect your decision making.

Boat Projects:

Get the safety and minimum comfort items out of the way and head out. Do the rest as you have time/money/energy to tackle an item. We did this and found many of the items we thought we "needed"...never bothered to do them.

Dog:

We dealt with this twice.
- #1 (beagle), just kind of worked out. He was 15yr old and got late stage cancer about 3 months before we were to head out. We would have taken him but it certainly is simpler without.
- #2 (chihauhau), Someone said, they wouldn't bring one home if they helped out at the animal shelter when we were stationary for 3 months over the winter. Someone lied. He actually was good on the boat. We had some intermittent overseas work that was going to be difficult to deal with and a friend of a friend offered to take him for the winter. She cried and begged us to keep him when we got back in the spring. He seemed happy and well taken care of, so what could we do.

Update: I just saw that this ship may have sailed but for others reading the thread, I wouldn't recommend buying as you are walking out the door.

[Na Mara]

New update.

The boat is now up out of the water for the winter. All looks good at the keel, and with the antifouling. Nothing needs doing there. The anodes need replacing, no surprise there. Work has pretty much halted while the yard takes all the boats out for the winter, but right after this post I will be contacting them to ask for a video conference to discuss progress.

We are now seriously looking into the finances of all this and it is difficult with my wife staying behind and needing somewhere to live. We have exhausted all but one option for making this work, but we think we now have a solution but it requires her sister's help and some flexibility from the company producing our flat. Basically, we need them to agree to my wife buying the flat with her sister rather than with me. As her sister earns more than me there isn't any issue with affordability but when we signed the purchase agreement with the developer the contract is to sell to my wife and I, not to my wife and her sister. We will see whether they can show that flexibility. If not then we have a plan B that definitely works.

Plan B is for us to delay the trip for one more year. This lets us complete the purchase on the flat, move in and get settled while we both have full salaries. It also gives us an extra year to work on the boat. The down side is that it would mean interrupting my son's education one year into his gymnasia (a bit like college) education. That is far from ideal and we would like to avoid it but I have spoken with my son about us maybe needing to do this and he says that if this is the only way to do the trip then he will take the hit.

On the boat side, I just got a quote back for putting a spinnaker on the boat which I am minded to reject. It was about 3500 euros all in and I just can't motivate that for the ability to run deeper down wind. We have an asymmetric spinnaker off bowsprit and a 130% genoa. We would only use a pole in very light winds in rolly seas to stop the sails collapsing, if running so far downwind that the main risks blanketing the asymmetric (if its windy enough to be on the genoa then its windy enough to drop the main), or if goose winging. I the first case we can rig lines to the end of the boom (with preventers deployed) to prevent the foresail collapsing. In the second we can just sail a little shallower and add a few gybes. In the third we can just sail under foresail alone if it is windy enough or we can gybe downwind.

Now maybe if we were doing a lot of trade wind sailing the pole would be warranted just for ease of use, but for the trip we have planed where we will rarely be sailing downwind I just feel that this is money better spent on something else.

Speaking of which, I finally found the solution to all our culinary needs. Its very expensive but its a double hob (not induction), gimbaled, electric cooker with built in combination oven microwave. The whole thing is only 45cm wide and 3.75kW (1.2kW per hob, 1.35kW oven/micro) in output. This means it will fit in the existing space in the galley and will work with the existing 2.4kW inverter (assuming I only use two of the three systems when not connected to shore power.). It is very expense though at 7000 euro and as they are hand made there is a 3 month delivery period.

The unit comes from techimpex and is the horizon2 micro compact.

https://www.techimpex.tv/cookers-with-oven

Finally, I am also rethinking our power supply. I was leaning to a production arch with 600W mounted on it plus 300W of semiflex panels on the pilothouse. Altogether that was about 8000 euros installed. But I'm reconsidering and leaning toward a wind generator augmented with 600W of FLINrail solar panels (https://flin-solar.com/products/tran...uer-die-reling). I have lots of reasons for going this route (75% of the cost, better energy production in high latitudes, preserves my boat's beautiful lines, easier to DIY.) but my main one is aesthetics. I love the look of the boat as she is without a huge helipad on the back and with the FLINrail I can have just as much energy production when necessary, with just a little more effort at a lot less cost. A no brainer for me.

Best and safe travels from Na Mara

[JPA Cate]

Na Mara: The wind gen can be a huge help keeping the batteries topped up during night time sailing.

We have never used electric cooking on any of our boats, but it is going to take a heck of a lot of battery capacity to support that kind of a load. Good luck with all of that. I'm sure you've checked your math. One of the most typical issues with new cruisers is not having enough electrical reserves. You need to be able to survive at least two days without input from both wind and solar, if you cannot re-charge off the engine alternator.

Keep up the good work.

Ann

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Na Mara: The wind gen can be a huge help keeping the batteries topped up during night time sailing.

We have never used electric cooking on any of our boats, but it is going to take a heck of a lot of battery capacity to support that kind of a load. Good luck with all of that. I'm sure you've checked your math. One of the most typical issues with new cruisers is not having enough electrical reserves. You need to be able to survive at least two days without input from both wind and solar, if you cannot re-charge off the engine alternator.

Keep up the good work.

Ann

Around me the general consensus Is add more solar and discontinue wind. It’s now noticeable how few wind generators there are these days.