What do you think of this boat?

[skwanderer]

P. S. I single-hand sail as well as motor mine most all the time. I think that's a basic skill and requirement of any boat owner

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by skwanderer

I have a 1981 Lancer 44 motorsailer, and I LOVE 'er! She's suited my needs and desires for the past nearly 5 years, and I plan on many more together.

There's a lot of salty dogs on this forum that like hating on Lancers in general, but I'm thoroughly enjoying mine. I think it's very well made.

Made in Irvine CA, hand laid roving fb hull that's solid and multilayer, and nearly inch think Marine plywood bulkheads. She's a beast, solid and sturdy. And thoughtfully finished inside. Gorgeous details. Exactly what I want.

I lived aboard for a couple of years until my job took me inland, and still have her in Oakland, where I visit monthly. Mine was advertised for $50k, got it for $28k (survey issues are key to deducting/negotiating sale price) and have probably put in another $30k in rehab (some myself, leaving systems to the experts); bottom paint, water lines, electrical, fuel lines and engine, running rigging, etc. I expect another $15-20k to replace standing rigging and step mast (compression on deck). Everyone who's been aboard remarks on her "good bones" and comfort and style.

Bought her in San Diego and brought up to SF in 4 days, she proved herself the entire trip; under power, not under sail. And In a few years, my plan is to head to the Caribbean. I think she's suited well for the plans.

So spacious, easy to move about, twin Perkins 75 hp for power, which is fine, as max hull speed is about 8.5 kts. Never planned on racing her, more for bay and coastal. I've been able to clock 5 kts sog with main and fore deployed and engines off, running a broad reach in SF Bay in 15-20 kts in the slot. Less kts close-hauled, but again, the trade off of comfort vs performance is fine by me.

And comfortable!! I'm 6 ft tall and nowhere on board do I have to duck. Only 4 stairsteps in the entire length! Queen bed up front, no v-berth! Tons of storage in the walls and throughout.

I have the "trawler with sails" motorsailer style, with the large windows in salon, not bunker basement design like most sailing vessels. With the bay area winds, I have a lot of freeboard and challenging conditions when docking in the typical cross-winds of summer, but oh well.

Good to solicit all opinions, then make your own. Best of luck to you. While I have a different model than the one in question, I'd say as a company Lancer produced a good for me, but like anything used, it's also how it's been treated since. Mine had been neglected for nearly 10 years, but has come back to life like a gem, a testament to the core quality and building craftsmanship.

It's a good point. If the OP just wants to live aboard, if the boat is water tight and clean, floating condo or not, It should do the job. Offer far less, remember,...... selling may be tough.

[skwanderer]

Dry as a bone inside!! Never musty or moldy smells! Ever! And I've been on plenty of vessels that immediately assault the nostrils. I had a Catalina 24 that was impossible to rid of dank mildewy odor

[Glassdog]

So, it’s not at all of us old salty dog sailors like to pick on Lancers. All of them except the small pocket sloops were built as Motor sailors and if you look at the whole design it is distinctly a motor Sailor. I’ve sailed on two and the one thing they don’t do very well is sail., And they won’t go to weather to save your life. The build quality is mediocre but if you’re simply looking for space and almost nonexistent sailing performance they would be great as long as the motors are in good shape. I agree that that Bristol is a beautiful little Boat and there are a great many deals to be had in true offshore sailboats for half the price of that lancer. Good luck to you

[warrior 90]

Well, obviously she was not built to win races. However I am sure she will be very easy to handle and sail while also give You a decent performance when running the engine and for sure she will be very comfortable to live on board. I am sure if You can identify with the concept of this boat You really gonna love her.
Looking at the photos and the history of repairs I get the impression the owners had an attitude to keep her in shape. Of course there will be a few things like there always are but I would not go by the negative comments here. Go and have a look at the boat....if You don´t like it You can always walk away.

You say You are on a budget. Well, then You wanna have a real close look and after that for sure You need a COMPETENT surveyor. He should be able to tell You what to expext. He will also help You to buy this boat for the right price.

Good Luck

[skwanderer]

Originally Posted by Glassdog

So, it’s not at all of us old salty dog sailors like to pick on Lancers. All of them except the small pocket sloops were built as Motor sailors and if you look at the whole design it is distinctly a motor Sailor. I’ve sailed on two and the one thing they don’t do very well is sail., And they won’t go to weather to save your life. The build quality is mediocre but if you’re simply looking for space and almost nonexistent sailing performance they would be great as long as the motors are in good shape. I agree that that Bristol is a beautiful little Boat and there are a great many deals to be had in true offshore sailboats for half the price of that lancer. Good luck to you

Hahaha, you just validated my points about Lancer commenters!

[Dougtiff]

A friend is selling his Hanschristian 38 for $25K due t health reasons,boats in Mexico, owners A sail maker,,boat on the hard, good engine ect. If interested my email <handreefsail@gmail.com>

[Aeronut2003]

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. I couldn't find much info on Lancers so I thought I would toss it out to the brain trust for comment and all of the concerns mentioned above (too big, won't sail, motorsailer) I have had as well.

I figure to start this life there is a curve. If the boat is too small and uncomfortable, my chances of success diminish because I won't want to do it. It will be too uncomfortable and I won't want to continue cruising. If I get too big a boat, my chances of success diminish because I will run out of money too quickly. So there is a point where my chances are best and I think that lands right around the 40 ft mark for me. I don't need the hardest, full-keel, keg rudder, double ended water tank, and I don't want a boat so cheaply made that it's going to fall apart on me in the first 35kt blow either.

I find the older "more solid Bluewater" boats in my price range to be uncomfortable layouts with small cockpits. While I know these layouts are more functional while underway, I have to remember that 90% of my time will be spent at anchor, hopefully sipping a beverage in the cockpit, so it's important to me that it me a comfortable place.

As far as timeline, I am in the airline industry, and due to restrictions in the CARES act, they can't furlough anyone until October 1st, so I'm still getting a paycheck until then. I am putting my house on the market next week though in anticipation of the furlough to cut my costs and I'm stuffing cash away as best I can right now in preparation for starting my new cruising life. I won't, under any circumstances, buy a boat until my house is sold, deeded, recorded, and I am 100% no longer responsible for the mortgage. So for now I'm scouring yachtworld, Pop Yachts, Boat Shed, Ebay, Craigslist and every other internet database for selling sail boats in order to educate myself on what I can get for how much and where.

I've read tons of books on the subject (The practical sailor, inspecting the aging sailboat, sailing alone around the world etc), and have chartered everything from a 25 ft Catalina to a 46 ft Beneteau and even a big 44' Catamaran with friends. So while I know the sea has MANY lessons to teach me, I think I know enough to put the plan in motion.

Thanks again for all the input and I'll let you all know how things move along!
-Chris

[TideTime]

I agree with "roverhi" and others who indicate this Lancer is probably not the best choice for one who wants to get back into sailing. While it sounds like you have had adequate experience to handle a boat in the 40 foot range, if you plan to do a lot of single-handed sailing, you might find a 40-45 foot boat to be just a bit more to handle than you would be comfortable with. While I am not at all familiar with the Lancer, it may look impressive inside, but could present a problem for a resale. If you are really interested in serious sailing as opposed to being tied up at the dock then I would consider looking at a Cape Dory or Island Packet, as both boats would present comfort together with proven sailing ability and it is unlikely resale would present the problem you would be facing with the Lancer.

I saw a 1984 Cape Dory 36' Cutter listed in Yachtworld for $59,900, a 1983 Cape Dory 36 for $48,500, and a 1984 Cape Dory 36' Cutter for $63,330. There was also a 1989 Island Packet 35 listed for $64,900. I suspect you would not find any sailor to suggest the Lancer would be a better purchase. There are make specific websites that will provide you with numerous listings of both makes of sailboat. Of course, there are other makes (i.e., Bristol, C&C, etc.) that would also offer boats in the price range you indicate.

[hpeer]

Aeronaut,

Your questions about Lancers are good. Maybe try to find a old surveyor near where they were built to give some advice.

One day a lecturer described the difference between Sailors and Motorboaters this way. Stink pots use the motor 100% of the time, sailors only 90% of the time. Of course that’s not universally true, and especially among a group of sailors who hang out on the internet to talk about sailing. But it is too true.

I have made some trips, far too many trips where I at best motor sailed because the wind was either on the nose or dead. I have motor-sailed from Halifax to the Delaware twice and never shut off the engine. I’ve done the Thorny Path and used the engine most of the way.

I would love to sail more and do whenever possible. But when moving a boat on a schedule you do what you have to do. When you have the time and freedom then just pick your days when you can sail and do it.

Interior fit out is really important when living on a boat. No matter how hard core sailing you are you spend far more time at anchor/mooring/dock than you do off. And we have just spent over 3 months without moving due the virus. I’m damn glad we have some extra space and amenities.

In the end it all comes down to what you want to do. And there is a good chance you won’t even really know that until you have the boat. Like everything in life, there a lot of crap shoot involved.

Best of wishes.

[Jim Cate]

I've been able to clock 5 kts sog with main and fore deployed and engines off, running a broad reach in SF Bay in 15-20 kts in the slot. Less kts close-hauled, but again, the trade off of comfort vs performance is fine by me.

OP, please read this bit over again. Here we have an enthusiastic owner, bragging about the overall performance of his 45 foot boat under sail. Not likely that he is under-reporting the facts!

Well, the reported performance is really awful. AWFUL! An entry level trailer sailor, say a Catalina 22 like I used to sail in SF bay, will exceed that downwind speed easily, and sail upwind competently in those conditions. Just about any normal 45 foot sailboat will reach hull speed under those broad reaching conditions, and will sail upwind at ~ 6 knots.

If your sabbatical really includes sailing as a goal, the Lancer will be a gross disappointment. If a floating condo that you motor from place to place meets your requirements, well, have at it... but that's not what it sounded like in your initial post.

This opinion likely places me in the "hater" category in some eyes, but I don't hate the boats... I just think they don't sail very well at all. A comfortable boat is important for sure, but many comfortable boats will sail circles around this one, so again, if sailing is important to you, keep on looking.

Jim

[snort]

Here's the "Mahina List" of John Neal's boats to take offshore:
https://www.mahina.com/cruise.html
I'd argue that not all on this list would be the best of choices to sail to the Marquesas and beyond, assuming your buying somewhere in California. It might be a good starting point for consideration though.

[Scotty Kiwi]

I'm not commenting on value for money. But only only underwater hull shape. I've years of ocean, sea and harbour experience in deep full keel boats.

Recently been shocked at the lack of comfort at sea by these wide, flat undersides. Pound pound pound to a point of being dangerous.

Of course if you're not intending to go to sea for any extended period (beyond a dead calm weather window, that flat bottom has the advantage of more room inside.

But some who go that way go the whole hog and put a fancy shed on a raft with an outboard to move once a millenium.

[boatman61]

Well.. I think she's great on the accommodation side and as for the sailing side I tend to be picky about my windows where my boats are concerned these days..
Not into the challenges of Biscay crossings in December or transats W to E in February any more.. that machismo is restricted to work these days.
If its a liveaboard I am in no hurry and I am happy to wait for the beam, broad reach and downwind weather or mild conditions upwind if I absolutely must for a motorsail.. living aboard takes the schedules out of the cruising life and sailing in optimum conditions reduces wear and tear.. Be Chill.. You know it makes sense..
If she's capable of averaging 110nm a day in 15kts bar upwind that'd be good enough for me..

[ilenart]

Originally Posted by Aeronut2003

Thanks to everyone for all the replies. I couldn't find much info on Lancers so I thought I would toss it out to the brain trust for comment and all of the concerns mentioned above (too big, won't sail, motorsailer) I have had as well.

I figure to start this life there is a curve. If the boat is too small and uncomfortable, my chances of success diminish because I won't want to do it. It will be too uncomfortable and I won't want to continue cruising. If I get too big a boat, my chances of success diminish because I will run out of money too quickly. So there is a point where my chances are best and I think that lands right around the 40 ft mark for me. I don't need the hardest, full-keel, keg rudder, double ended water tank, and I don't want a boat so cheaply made that it's going to fall apart on me in the first 35kt blow either.

I find the older "more solid Bluewater" boats in my price range to be uncomfortable layouts with small cockpits. While I know these layouts are more functional while underway, I have to remember that 90% of my time will be spent at anchor, hopefully sipping a beverage in the cockpit, so it's important to me that it me a comfortable place.

As far as timeline, I am in the airline industry, and due to restrictions in the CARES act, they can't furlough anyone until October 1st, so I'm still getting a paycheck until then. I am putting my house on the market next week though in anticipation of the furlough to cut my costs and I'm stuffing cash away as best I can right now in preparation for starting my new cruising life. I won't, under any circumstances, buy a boat until my house is sold, deeded, recorded, and I am 100% no longer responsible for the mortgage. So for now I'm scouring yachtworld, Pop Yachts, Boat Shed, Ebay, Craigslist and every other internet database for selling sail boats in order to educate myself on what I can get for how much and where.

I've read tons of books on the subject (The practical sailor, inspecting the aging sailboat, sailing alone around the world etc), and have chartered everything from a 25 ft Catalina to a 46 ft Beneteau and even a big 44' Catamaran with friends. So while I know the sea has MANY lessons to teach me, I think I know enough to put the plan in motion.

Thanks again for all the input and I'll let you all know how things move along!
-Chris

Hi Aeronut,

looking at your plans and your budget I would seriously question the size of the boats you are looking at. Yes I have just upgraded to a 2003 Hallberg Rassy 40 (40 ft offshore cruiser), from a 1979 UFO 34 (34 foot cruiser / racer). However my budget is a lot higher than yours, there are two of us (me and my wife) and we are preparing for extended offshore voyages. Plus we are not looking at “camping” so have lots of expensive “gadgets” like a watermaker, deisel genset, hot and cold showers, etc, etc. This means the cost of purchasing and running my HR 40 is 3-5 times the cost of purchasing and running my old 34 foot yacht. However we could of done the same trip in the UFO 34 for about 1/4 to 1/5 of the budget. Yes it would be more like camping, but the beer tastes the same sitting in the cockpit!

A good rule of thumb is that every 5 feet of boat doubles the cost of the boat. Conversly if you could find a 35 foot boat you will halve the cost, compared to a 40 ft yacht. Plus the modern 34-35 foot yachts have about the same room below as an older 40 foot yacht. I have always been impressed by the qualities of Catalina yachts and plenty of people take them offshore. If you could find a Catalina 34-36 or something similar that you could live with, your budget and sailing trip will go a lot further.

Good luck, Ilenart