What happens to all the wannabees?

[PirateFoxy]

My SO and I are testing our ‘confined spaces’ tolerance for eachother in an RV. We want to take some boating courses too but don’t feel safe with Covid right now so we haven’t done that yet. (We live in Pittsburgh so I suspect we’ll start with power boating courses just because they’re easier to access on the rivers and will give us some navigation skills and so on. Then sailing someplace a bit father afield.)

So far the RV is also proving good practice at fixing things all the time, which is what you get when you buy a 1995 model. Current issue - fridge. I’m getting reaaaaaallly sick of managing coolers with ice. (We might actually steal a boat idea and build a top opening freezer to fit in one of our basement compartments to keep meat, etc. in longer term. I think that would be more efficient than a standard front opening like we have inside and DIY would let us size it to the space since the compartments are a bit odd shaped.)

We aren’t in a position to just buy a boat and go, so the RV is more manageable for us now while still letting us try some things out. (I should add we’re trying to boondock a lot rather than staying at campsites, so we have to be more self-contained, although not as much as on a boat since we can always swing by a grocery store or what have you, which is not an option in the middle of the ocean. So it’s baby steps.)

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

...the RV is more manageable for us now while still letting us try some things out. (I should add we’re trying to boondock a lot rather than staying at campsites, so we have to be more self-contained, although not as much as on a boat since we can always swing by a grocery store or what have you, which is not an option in the middle of the ocean. So it’s baby steps.)

You see, this is a good example of how non-sailors have mis-conceptions about cruising. Commenter says that with their RV "we can always swing by a grocery store which is not an option in the middle of the ocean".

You see, the thing is that most of the time you won't be in the middle of the ocean, you'll be cruising near islands and shores which have towns and grocery stores. Even many ocean passages are two weeks or less so usually you can get by until you next reach a port with a store.

[Buzzman]

Or, as most sensible people eventually realise, you need refrigeration on board. So now might be a good time to start practising the dark arts of 12V 'off-grid' refrigeration, to determine what you cna and can't live without.
Usually RVs have smaller versions of domestic fridges, but as yours only has a cooler box, it might be time to experiemtn with 12V chest fridge.
These are WIDELY preferred over the front opening bar fridge (dorm fridge I think you Seppos call them) and have been used WIDELY in places like Australia and Africa, as well as hunting camps the world over.
Depending on the boat you end up with, it may well have a built in 12V or 24V unit, but many cruisers these days 'get by' with the MUCH lower cost (and EASILY replaced) 12V chest fridge as an efficiency and budget option.
For exasmple, you may find you want ice cream...which means a freezer is necessary, but for most folks a simply 12V fridge is 'enough'.
Beats the heck out of draining ice cold water out fo the cooler box every single day! And frantically hunting around for a re-supply of ice...!!

[JPA Cate]

Reading Buzzman's post, I realized that the two most common things that broke cruisers plans in the Sea of Cortez (Golfo de California when we were there were refrigeration, and problems related to generating electricity. Lots of alternators did not put out enough, long enough to keep batteries topped up. The people the went back to the US or Canada may have not ever continued on, but the ones who had planned well, or figured out solutions carried on, and some of them went on to circumnavigate. The folks I am remembering who carried on were mostly younger than 45-50 yrs. old, and they were not among the wealthy cruisers. Maybe being low budget is a good stimulus for inventiveness?


Ann

[Skipper_Dan]

They buy a boat halfway around the world to force themselves into retirement. No looking back! Just go... Morgan 37



Dan

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Or, as most sensible people eventually realise, you need refrigeration on board. So now might be a good time to start practising the dark arts of 12V 'off-grid' refrigeration, to determine what you cna and can't live without.
Usually RVs have smaller versions of domestic fridges, but as yours only has a cooler box, it might be time to experiemtn with 12V chest fridge.
These are WIDELY preferred over the front opening bar fridge (dorm fridge I think you Seppos call them) and have been used WIDELY in places like Australia and Africa, as well as hunting camps the world over.
Depending on the boat you end up with, it may well have a built in 12V or 24V unit, but many cruisers these days 'get by' with the MUCH lower cost (and EASILY replaced) 12V chest fridge as an efficiency and budget option.
For exasmple, you may find you want ice cream...which means a freezer is necessary, but for most folks a simply 12V fridge is 'enough'.
Beats the heck out of draining ice cold water out fo the cooler box every single day! And frantically hunting around for a re-supply of ice...!!

It always amazes me that people buy 'chest' refers and claim that they are colder and use less electricity than the built-in which sits there dead. Meanwhile they take up space in their cabins for the chest.

How can a chest with 1/2 the insulation and an inefficient compressor be more efficient? Is it magic?

Fix your built in, it will out perform your cheapo chest.

[Buzzman]

More COST efficient, easier than having to find ICE every other day....

[Mr B]

I have always eaten good food no matter where I am,
It keeps you fit and healthy and keeps your Immune system at peak performance,
EG; you dont get sick,
On land, you are never far from shops or supermarkets,
Even away in the Alps, riding my Motor cycle, Camping, I never went with out good food,

Most supermarkets in OZ sell freshly cooked baked chooks, $10-00
I pick up a cooked chook or a steak as I ride past for my evening meal, Or what ever I fancy for dinner,
I carry a small gas cooker, with a pot, I can cook the steak in it, heat my water for my coffee, The milk I carry in a small thermos flask, It enough for my weetbix in the morning and quite a few cups of coffee, I do like chilled milk to drink,

My RV has all the bells and whistles including a full sized fridge and kitchen, So its not a problem carrying fresh refrigerated and frozen food,
Restocked at any town I drive thru,

I have never eaten that packaged dried food you just add water too, That for me would be the Pits,

My Cat on the way back from Fiji, Did have the problem of not enough frozen capability in the fridge freezer section of my Cat for long distance sailing for frozen food,
Its a dometic gas - electric fridge, Two Way,

Which annoyed me no end,

I solved that problem by buying a 90 litre chest freezer, That holds enough frozen food at minus 18 Celcius on 12 volts for approximately 6 weeks before I totally run out,
But I also have a back up of tinned food, and packaged food, Spagetti, Rice, Cerials, UHT milk, UHT Cream, coffee in bulk cans, Tinned fruit, Etc etc,
So I have at least 3 months of good, healthy, edible food on board,
I also bought a gas cooker for the boat, I have cooked a roast lamb in it in the cockpit, with roast veggies as well,
But it does grill fish in it, Etc Etc,
I bought it to cook on the beach with it, But it works great in the cockpit too,
Madam pulled a roast out of the freezer to cook on the beach, Not being used to the movement of the boat still, She put it on the rear step and it being frozen and slippery, Decided it was meant for Neptune and dissapeared into 12 feet of very murky water, Lucky we had another roast still in the freezer, She was very annoyed that I would not let her carry the second roast to the dinghy, Hahahahahaha

Bit of a problem that it would not go in the rear cabin where I wanted it, Door too narrow,
But I solved that by putting it between the two seats in the salon at the rear of the table,
I can still lay down longways on the cabin salon seat,
Or sit and watch the GPS with out standing up or being in the cockpit,

But who cares, I dont, I have enough good food to get me across the top of OZ with out running out,
There are a couple of sections of about 500 miles with out shops or people of any kind,

I have a water maker, so no problems there,
Batterys and solar panels are brand new and plenty of it, 770 amphrs batterys and 700 Watts of solar,
But my injurys have put paid to all that,
So circumstances has made me a has been now,

Cheers, Brian

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by wingssail

It always amazes me that people buy 'chest' refers and claim that they are colder and use less electricity than the built-in which sits there dead. Meanwhile they take up space in their cabins for the chest.

How can a chest with 1/2 the insulation and an inefficient compressor be more efficient? Is it magic?

Fix your built in, it will out perform your cheapo chest.

You also have to have room to fit a Freezer inside your boat,
My Cat being 14 feet wide just doesnt have the room to fit any thing more than whats inside it already,

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by wingssail

You see, this is a good example of how non-sailors have mis-conceptions about cruising. Commenter says that with their RV "we can always swing by a grocery store which is not an option in the middle of the ocean".

You see, the thing is that most of the time you won't be in the middle of the ocean, you'll be cruising near islands and shores which have towns and grocery stores. Even many ocean passages are two weeks or less so usually you can get by until you next reach a port with a store.

I started a reply and the Internet ate it I think, so apologies if it turns up twice:

I was using a bit of hyperbole with the “middle of the ocean” bit but right now we are frequently stopping for the night in places like Walmart parking lots where it’s generally considered best practice to buy something to say “thanks for the space” so they keep letting RVs stop overnight, so forgetting an onion or planning to pick up meat for dinner at dinner time is no big deal at all - like a 5 min walk across a parking lot and most of that is looking to make sure you don’t get hit crossing. It’s a different approach and different attitude to even camping at campgrounds for a few days at a time, where stores are available but not Right There.

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Or, as most sensible people eventually realise, you need refrigeration on board. So now might be a good time to start practising the dark arts of 12V 'off-grid' refrigeration, to determine what you cna and can't live without.
Usually RVs have smaller versions of domestic fridges, but as yours only has a cooler box, it might be time to experiemtn with 12V chest fridge.
These are WIDELY preferred over the front opening bar fridge (dorm fridge I think you Seppos call them) and have been used WIDELY in places like Australia and Africa, as well as hunting camps the world over.
Depending on the boat you end up with, it may well have a built in 12V or 24V unit, but many cruisers these days 'get by' with the MUCH lower cost (and EASILY replaced) 12V chest fridge as an efficiency and budget option.
For exasmple, you may find you want ice cream...which means a freezer is necessary, but for most folks a simply 12V fridge is 'enough'.
Beats the heck out of draining ice cold water out fo the cooler box every single day! And frantically hunting around for a re-supply of ice...!!

We HAVE a fridge, it’s just decided it no longer wants to work on lpg and running the generator all the time to keep the fridge going (if we’re not somewhere we can plug in, which is most of the time) is just silly. (And expensive.) (It’s one of those two-way RV ones that runs on LPG or AC and is super cranky about being level too.)

My SO is the electronics person so he’s considering options - it looks like the problem with the fridge is a control board that costs as much as some other fridges to replace. The fridge itself also seems to be quite poorly insulated (so you can’t run it for a while then just keep it closed and have it keep a decent temp until you power it again) and a power hog, so we’re not in love with repairing it if it’s going to be expensive. But yes, the “do we have enough ice” dance is also quite tedious and annoying. So we are not sticking with the coolers routine any longer than needed to decide how we’re going to solve our problem properly.

[Buzzman]

Ah, OK, thanks for the clarification. I simply assumed you had a chest cooler or cooler box and no actual refrigeration.
Can I also presume the reefer is one of those smaller 'domestic' units or a 'bar' fridge size? The propane/elec fridges in RVs are always a compromise because they are adsorption fridges, which work OK with gas but not so well with 110/240VAC and are crap when used on 12V/24VDC.
My advice would be to source a pure 12VDC replacement, but get an 'all fridge' version so you gain in actual reefer space, and then purchase a small, like 25L or 35L capacity portable chest type unit and 'build it in' under a seat or bed, and set it as the freezer unit on -10degC. a good option is on a roller slide under a cross thwart/bench, so you can slide it out, and then dive in. If the lid is on a hinge with a ram to automatically open it, this makes access easier, especially underway, but have a small 'cam' built into the cupboard shelf above to 'automatically close and latch' the freezer lid, as you slide it back into it's space. This is WAY easier than putting it junder a thwart where you have to lift the cushins, then a solid lid, then the lid of the freezer, in order to access it.
I've seen this done on a modern catamaran, and it's a neat solution for a smaller unit.
As someone else noted, the insulation on retail fridges - whether domestic, RV upright, or automotive portable chest type (ENGEL etc), the insulation is crap, so building in some additional insulation will see a reduction in power consumption as well.
Chest-type fridge/freezers make excellent freezers, but are a compromise for a general fridge, where the upright, vertical door type are 'easier to use'. Not so great in terms of cooling efficiency, as every time you open the door, all the cold air inside falls to the floor, but this is a compromise most people are willing to make.
But added insulation is key in a boat. It's why the built-in reefers installed by dedicated 'boat fridge makers' all have thicker insulation, like 3" minimum and 4" better, and that in solid styrofoam.

[goboatingnow]

I did Atlantic crossings , 3-4 weeks , we ate cooked food prepared every day from local ingredients , like fillet of beef in Ginger, made from fresh ingredients , we had potatoes and root vegetables all the way across, various fruits etc . no fast food or pre-prepared rubbish

the only reason you end up adding water to some rubbish dehydrated junk food, is either you couldnt be bothered to provision properly or you cant cook . Both can be learned

everywhere in the world you can source , cook and eat good simple food assuming you can afford the local ingredients , its takes effort and it doesn't needs much refrigeration either !!

nothing better then a few local potatoes , some onion and tomatoes all fried together , or canaries potatoes boiled in salt half way across the atlantic , yum

you can easily learn to bake breads and all sorts of nice stuff too

[goboatingnow]

The propane/elec fridges in RVs are always a compromise because they are adsorption fridges, which work OK with gas but not so well with 110/240VAC and are crap when used on 12V/24VDC.

gas absorption fridge's never do anything well in my experience

[double u]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I did Atlantic crossings , 3-4 weeks , we ate cooked food prepared every day from local ingredients , like fillet of beef in Ginger, made from fresh ingredients , we had potatoes and root vegetables all the way across, various fruits etc . no fast food or pre-prepared rubbish

the only reason you end up adding water to some rubbish dehydrated junk food, is either you couldnt be bothered to provision properly or you cant cook . Both can be learned

everywhere in the world you can source , cook and eat good simple food assuming you can afford the local ingredients , its takes effort and it doesn't needs much refrigeration either !!

nothing better then a few local potatoes , some onion and tomatoes all fried together , or canaries potatoes boiled in salt half way across the atlantic , yum

you can easily learn to bake breads and all sorts of nice stuff too

...different people might have different tastes...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by double u

...different people might have different tastes...

Nobody seriously seeks out pot noodles !!. All tastes can be accommodated using good ingredients and some effort.