What's a skipper's obligation to voluntary crew?

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

If I remember correctly, in one of the crew wanted responses.
You're going to have to look it up yourself tho

I already did, but I was trying to be polite. I think everyone would agree that there is a difference between the terms "offshore" and "blue water."

The trip to the USVI was definitely not a "blue water" trip. The post below was in response to a trip from the Panama canal to Tahiti, definitely a "blue water" trip.

I do hope I'm still being polite.

Here is the post:

I'm available for all or part of your trip.

56 yo PhD (physiology), 25 year experience sailing, ASA certified, offshore delivery crew, but not very blue-water experienced.

Wanting experience before going offshore in my own dream.

Fred Boyd

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

First of all - we don't know what was asked and when. Even the OP is vague on that subject, and none of us were there when they spoke / emailed.

Secondly - we don't know what they had agreed on regarding costs. Not unusual for crew to have to pay for their ticket and expenses. The OP declined to answer any questions regarding their agreement, so we'll never know.

I'm sure the unwritten expectation was "I'll pay for my ticket to fly out there in exchange for a spot on the crew."


I'm actually kind of surprised that you have this stance about this event.

Let's say a young couple are engaged to be married and the bride's family spends $50,000 on a lavish wedding. On the night before the wedding, the groom decides he'd rather bang the maid of honor.

Do you feel the groom did the right thing, "changing his mind" at the last moment? After all, it's his life, he should reserve the right to change his mind at any moment if things don't "feel right."

Do you feel that the bride's parents have a right to ask the groom or his family to reimburse them for the $50,000 they wasted?

It sounds to me like you feel that the groom was perfectly justified, his timing was perfect and the bride and her family are just SOL.

According to posts on here, selecting the right crewmembers is just as important as picking the right spouse, since conditions are so cramped. So one should show as much courtesy prior to the wedding, I mean trip, as one would show to a bride, I mean crewmember.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

You seem to have missed the fact that the OP abandoned his thread shortly after it was revealed a medical condition was the cause -- on page two

So everyone was been beating a dead horse, so to speak.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I'm actually kind of surprised that you have this stance about this event.

I'm ignoring the wedding example, as that has nothing to do with what happened here

I explained my view in this post: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2026947

And again - just my personal opinion based on way too little info. But that's what the OP wanted, and that's what he got

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Let me see if I understand this.

You charge people to deliver their boats, do you pay the crew on these deliveries, or do you use volunteer crew?

My crew get All expense's paid on land and sea.. including overnights in decent hotels enroute.. and apart from looking pretty and standing one watch every 24hrs each, some line handling what ever.. are free to do as they choose the rest of the time..
I do the rest.. sailing, cooking etc..
they're compensated with free travel abroad to scenic spots they'd normally never get to, food they'd never experience, people, cultures.. and great suntans thrown in.
They make up the numbers..
and I like them..
its that simple

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by boatman61

My crew get All expense's paid on land and sea.. including overnights in decent hotels enroute.. and apart from looking pretty and standing one watch every 24hrs each, some line handling what ever.. are free to do as they choose the rest of the time..
I do the rest.. sailing, cooking etc..
they're compensated with free travel abroad to scenic spots they'd normally never get to, food they'd never experience, people, cultures.. and great suntans thrown in.
They make up the numbers..
and I like them..
its that simple

Must be your family.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Must be your family.

Or escaped prisoners.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Cadence

So everyone was been beating a dead horse, so to speak.

Well, beating something, not sure it was a horse per se.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Must be your family.

Funny enough that's a group that's never sailed with me..
No.. its folk I know who do not 'work' for a living.. or can afford to take the time out.. and the only time they dip in their pockets its to buy momento's and gifts.
English, French, Portuguese.. an Italian Yank.. not prejudiced...

[JPA Cate]

Socaldmax,

It is always possible that I missed the point of this thread. For me, it was a leaping off point for the discussion of the risks of taking on or being crew for someone one does not know.

My sense was that the OP was seeking support for his outrage, which I felt was unwarranted. There's no way on earth the skipper could read this guy's mind to know what investments he was going to make, so no responsibility there. I think it is a shame the whole deal didn't work out, and I do think that occurred because the OP was not adequately forthcoming. I do not believe you can get the kind of information you need about people before you take them on as crew by internet "chat" or even telephone contact. You need to see them face to face. I completely agree with Boatman61's post #325 on this subject. I think it was extremely kind of the skipper to give the guy the cash he did. Personally, I do not often carry that much on me at any given time. [That choice has nothing whatsoever to do with questions of my overall solvency or lack thereof. I did not respond to that part of your posts, but perhaps you can see where I'm coming from; I was taught early to not carry more than I was happy to lose.]

Nothing personal here, sir, but I am finding this discussion somewhat tedious at this point, and will be outta here for a bit.

Ann

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by boatman61

My crew get All expense's paid on land and sea.. including overnights in decent hotels enroute.. and apart from looking pretty and standing one watch every 24hrs each, some line handling what ever.. are free to do as they choose the rest of the time..
I do the rest.. sailing, cooking etc..
they're compensated with free travel abroad to scenic spots they'd normally never get to, food they'd never experience, people, cultures.. and great suntans thrown in.
They make up the numbers..
and I like them..
its that simple

Hell, my sorry old ass will crew with you. You may even like me?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Hell, my sorry old ass will crew with you. You may even like me?

Did I not say..??
Must be Female..
No strings..!!

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by boatman61

My crew get All expense's paid on land and sea.. including overnights in decent hotels enroute.. and apart from looking pretty and standing one watch every 24hrs each, some line handling what ever.. are free to do as they choose the rest of the time..
I do the rest.. sailing, cooking etc..
they're compensated with free travel abroad to scenic spots they'd normally never get to, food they'd never experience, people, cultures.. and great suntans thrown in.
They make up the numbers..
and I like them..
its that simple

id be in

[contrail]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I'm sure the unwritten expectation was "I'll pay for my ticket to fly out there in exchange for a spot on the crew."


I'm actually kind of surprised that you have this stance about this event.

Let's say a young couple are engaged to be married and the bride's family spends $50,000 on a lavish wedding. On the night before the wedding, the groom decides he'd rather bang the maid of honor.

Do you feel the groom did the right thing, "changing his mind" at the last moment? After all, it's his life, he should reserve the right to change his mind at any moment if things don't "feel right."

Do you feel that the bride's parents have a right to ask the groom or his family to reimburse them for the $50,000 they wasted?

It sounds to me like you feel that the groom was perfectly justified, his timing was perfect and the bride and her family are just SOL.

According to posts on here, selecting the right crewmembers is just as important as picking the right spouse, since conditions are so cramped. So one should show as much courtesy prior to the wedding, I mean trip, as one would show to a bride, I mean crewmember.

That's utter rubbish, and the silliest thing you, or anyone else, has said. To equate a marriage proposal (with all that precedes it, face to face), an engagement and a $50,000 wedding to an internet and phone interaction that leads to a potential sailing trip is a total non-starter. I suggest you go and do a little captaining or crewing and see if that changes your perspective.

And the only thing that I hope comes out of all of this is that people realize how complex the challenges of putting a crew together really are. Captain's, do your homework. Crew, same thing and don't ever think you have invested what the owners and captains have...it's not a lark. Everyone, try to have a rational discussion pointing out your own shortcomings and pitfalls, before anyone gets in a situation that hurts. This is best in many aspects of life, but we so often do the opposite, hiding things we don't want people to know, and not being forthcoming....and then look for someone else to blame.

I am outta here!

[Rustic Charm]

Im between Socaldmax and Ann on this. Without knowing the nature of the OP's affliction i cant get off the fence which is leaning more on Socaldmax view because im not willing to accept the OP was in anyway dishonest or withholding anything without hearing the skippers view.

Ann, im at a loss to work out where the schitophrenia suggestion came from?