What's the deal with brokers?!?!

[Operjrr]

I feel your pain.

I just wasted a trip to Florida from Texas to look at a boat that was, at best, misrepresented. At no time did the sellers broker let me know the boat was full of mold, rotting bulkheads, and rust from being closed up for 6 months with no A/C or dehumidifier running and several substantial leaks.

It was like a bad dream of what could happen to a neglected boat yet he said nothing. The pictures showed a boat in good, clean condition. The total opposite of what we found. In several conversations, nothing was mentioned so shame on me for not specifically asking pointed questions and keeping the recorded conversation. (I record ALL conversations as a default BTW) Cool little phone app called ACR.

Live and learn, and boy did I learn a LOT!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Operjrr

I feel your pain.

I just wasted a trip to Florida from Texas to look at a boat that was, at best, misrepresented. At no time did the sellers broker let me know the boat was full of mold, rotting bulkheads, and rust from being closed up for 6 months with no A/C or dehumidifier running and several substantial leaks.

It was like a bad dream of what could happen to a neglected boat yet he said nothing. The pictures showed a boat in good, clean condition. The total opposite of what we found. In several conversations, nothing was mentioned so shame on me for not specifically asking pointed questions and keeping the recorded conversation. (I record ALL conversations as a default BTW) Cool little phone app called ACR.

Live and learn, and boy did I learn a LOT!

You are not the first to report this happening and I must say I find this beyond despicable. For someone to take off work and pay to fly halfway across the country to at boats only to find that they are not at all what was represented or expected is unforgivable.

Even worse, a good broker can provide a valuable service for someone in your situation that is trying to buy a boat long distance. Correctly handled a broker would carefully evaluate the buyers requirements including budget, planned use, skill level, etc. Then research appropriate boats, insure the buyer gets an honest evaluation of the condition of the boats and arrange to have the boats ready for the buyer to view.

Can't really think of an easy solution beyond recommending anyone buying a boat to research the broker even more carefully than the boat.

Perhaps a list on this forum of brokers that have done well with other members?

[SalingSue]

It’s like realtors, it’s for the people who are too ugly to strip.

Brokers come into two groups
Ones who do it full time, which is not the best demographic
Ones who do it part time, better demographic as they are typically successful people, but problem is this is job number 2 and priority number 2

Also most have very little of their own skin in the game, buying direct from the seller has always been a better experience for me, for all things.

[Sailing August]

Unless you are buying a million dollar super yacht there is no need for a broker. Brokers have been replaced by the internet. Deal directly with the owner or not at all. These people just get in the way and bring no value to the transaction.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Sailing August

Unless you are buying a million dollar super yacht there is no need for a broker. Brokers have been replaced by the internet. Deal directly with the owner or not at all. These people just get in the way and bring no value to the transaction.

I'm not big on salesmen but a reputable broker might get some exposure one might not get just on the net.

[Bbolino]

Yacht brokers are like any other sales business - there are plenty of good ones and plenty of bad ones. the bad ones are generally just lazy.

I have bought/sold several boats using the same broker at the same brokerage firm (Vic Redden at Knot10 Yacht Sales). Both are first rate - honest, hardworking and knowledgeable.

The same problem exists with marine surveyors - plenty of good ones, and plenty of bad ones.

There are good ones out there.

[hukilaumike]

Originally Posted by Sailing August

Unless you are buying a million dollar super yacht there is no need for a broker. Brokers have been replaced by the internet. Deal directly with the owner or not at all. These people just get in the way and bring no value to the transaction.

A broker does bring some value to a transaction. They provide contracts and escrow services. You can replicate these services yourself, but not without cost.

I bought my current boat directly from the owner. He and I had no problem ginning up a purchase and sale agreement, but we're both lawyers. We used the BOAT/US form that was available on the internet, but made a number of changes to it. There are quite a few people who would not be comfortable signing a non-form contract without consulting an attorney. So by using the standard broker's contract, you avoid that particular dilemma and potentially paying a lawyer to look over your do-it-yourself contract.

The holding of the deposit in escrow is another function the broker performs for your protection. If you don't have that service, you are trusting that the seller will return your deposit if the sale falls through. In my case, I was going to get one of my lawyer friends to act as my escrow agent (cost for me: a night of pizza and beer), but the PO and I got to know each other, and we decided we could trust each other and did without an escrow service. Banks and lawyers do provide escrow services, but they charge for them.

So while I agree with you that some of the primary functions of the broker have been replaced by the internet, even a bad broker can add value to your transaction. Enough value to do without them? Your call.

[Sea Wolf]

Many moons ago, we were looking for ‘our boat’. I contacted a half dozen brokers, gave them our requirements... pretty simply, actually... 40-45’ blue water cruising catamaran sailboat. I received links to 16’ runabouts, 60’ cabin cruisers, cigarette boats and everything in between... and a whole lot of ugly pressure. One broker emailed me back with more questions about our needs and wants... ONE. A week later he got back to me with 3 possibilities. One boat was a bit larger than we wanted (50’), he hadn’t seen it, but he knew it was a great boat and was priced right. He had asked the owner for additional pictures and if we liked what we saw, he would fly to Venezuela to have a look see and inspect the boat. The pictures were good so we met him in Venezuela and she became ours. Since then, he’s been our broker, become a life long friend, and we’ve recommended him to many people. He’s recently helped us sell our 50 footer and is now helping us locate another, smaller boat as we’re getting a bit long in the tooth to be handling such a large boat. If you want a good broker, I strongly recommend Jerry Blakeslee. Tell him Loree and Bill sent you. Jerry@BayIslandYachts.com

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by Sailing August

Unless you are buying a million dollar super yacht there is no need for a broker. Brokers have been replaced by the internet. Deal directly with the owner or not at all. These people just get in the way and bring no value to the transaction.

Agreed!

Looks like purchasing a boat adds so much of extra costs on top of the "asking price" on YW.
Sellers broker, buyers broker, "buyers consultant" (never heard that before...), taxes, customs, registration fees, surveyor, haul out fees, travel to get there costs, get back home costs because boat was a rotten mess, and so on and so on.
All repair costs are at a premium, however, repair quality is often below DIY or economy class...

It seems to be like everyone is trying to get a piece of the cake of a buyers hard earned money... just so sell a wreck.

I dont need a broker to use an escrow service and standard contracts are available online and can be used free of charge.

If one can avoid at least some of the unneccesary expenses of buying a boat, one should try to do so...

John

[LifePart2]

Wow, I never realised that people have such problems with brokers!

When we were looking at buying a boat I did not know where to start - and I certainly did not want to be flying all over the world looking at boats that ultimately I would not buy.

So we used a buyer's broker. We flew down to Fort Lauderdale one weekend. He then showed us literally dozens of diffferent boats that were currently for sale. We poked around them all, and commented on what we liked and did not like on each one.

Of them all we did not find one we wanted to buy. BUT by then we, and the broker, had a good idea of what we did want to buy. We went home.

A couple of weeks later the broker called us up and told us he had found us the right boat. It was in BVI and we should go look and do a survey. We did exactly that, we flew out, met the broker and had a survey done. It was just what we wanted, and we bought it.

We are now on year 11 of ownership, and couldn't be happier. Using a broker saved us a lot of time, helped us to identify exactly the right boat, and cost nothing extra. We couldn't recommend the experience, and the broker, any more highly.

But I guess it does depend on finding the right broker. Incidentally, it seems to me much more sensible to use your own buyer's broker rather than trusting anything that is told you by the selling broker. Just like buying a house.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by LifePart2

Wow, I never realised that people have such problems with brokers!

When we were looking at buying a boat I did not know where to start - and I certainly did not want to be flying all over the world looking at boats that ultimately I would not buy.

So we used a buyer's broker. We flew down to Fort Lauderdale one weekend. He then showed us literally dozens of diffferent boats that were currently for sale. We poked around them all, and commented on what we liked and did not like on each one.

20yrs ago, this might have been an advantage.

In the modern world, there is no reason you have to fly all over the world just to look.

Vast majority of boats sold are within a couple hours driving distance but even if looking further afield, it's not hard to ask for more pictures or even do a video call with the owner at the boat and have him show you things in real time.

You should easily be able to weed out most questionable boats without traveling to the boat.

[LifePart2]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

20yrs ago, this might have been an advantage.

In the modern world, there is no reason you have to fly all over the world just to look.

Vast majority of boats sold are within a couple hours driving distance but even if looking further afield, it's not hard to ask for more pictures or even do a video call with the owner at the boat and have him show you things in real time.

You should easily be able to weed out most questionable boats without traveling to the boat.

Not many boats within a couple of hours of most of Canada. And certainly no catamarans. And to get a really good feel of just what one does and does not want on a boat you can't beat actually walking through it. Trying to do what we did by video would have been a lot more hassle, and lot more tiring (looking at all those videos) and a lot more time consuming.

Fine if you already know just what you want. If you have already decided that you want a Lagoon 400 from 7 years ago, or an old Island Packet, then sure, hunt online for what there is and the ask more questions.

In fact, my friend in New Brunswick is interested in buying a used Privilege in Grenada. He has asked the questions and seen the photos but, since we are now down here (or at least we will be once we get out of quarantine), he would like us to go and do a walk through for him. But he knows cats and knows what he wants, so he doesn't have to see many.

But if you don't know what you want, I stand by my assertion that a buyer's broker can help a lot. How else are you going to get to walk through lots of old boats? A boat show won't help, they are all brand new.

[Santana2]

My last 50' Boat was a piece of crap broker. Unfortunately I put up with it. What a piece of garbage he was. This was in San Diego. There are some very good brokers there. But this guy was not one of them. He was not the main broker but I think a real jerk. He has his business but has the listings of the main brokers. So win some lose some. We have made many repairs and upgrades to our boat so it is good shape but not cheap. Just another lesson I guess. If you go to the top brokers and ask about what you really want, I think that is the best way. Sure they are all in business to make money but go to the top one I think.

[Cadence]

Like any other area a sales. Some throw as much $hit on the wall as they can and some is bound to stick.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Bbolino

Yacht brokers are like any other sales business - there are plenty of good ones and plenty of bad ones. the bad ones are generally just lazy.

I have bought/sold several boats using the same broker at the same brokerage firm (Vic Redden at Knot10 Yacht Sales). Both are first rate - honest, hardworking and knowledgeable.

The same problem exists with marine surveyors - plenty of good ones, and plenty of bad ones.

There are good ones out there.

I would agree that the bad ones are generally just lazy (occasionally incompetent) but have knows a few that were outright crooked, including a couple of former bosses.

My son in law has bought and sold three boats with the same broker and gotten hard work and great service for all.