ACR EPIRB vs Resqlink PLB

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wotname

My thoughts are slightly different. In my opinion , the EPRIB is for the ship, the PLB is for the person.

If the ship is in trouble, activate the EPIRB and let it do it's thing fuss free and unattended while crew does whatever else needs to be done. This has to tempered to the situation and type of emergency, type of vessel and type of crew but at the end of the day, the designed purpose of a maritime EPIRB is to get an MAYDAY alert to a distant RCC and it's all round design is to achieve this in a wide variety of maritime emergencies.

If a person is trouble (and not the vessel) I would activate the PLB accordingly.

And if both as in trouble and the person (crew) are separated from the EPRIB (activated or not), it is time to use the PLB.

Well, my thought is not really so much different from this. I think one would use whatever device is to hand, whether it's the ship or the person which is in trouble, no? If both are to hand, so, you are still with the ship and everyone is together there, then use the EPIRB. If you are in the raft, and you've got both EPIRB and PLB's, then set off the EPIRB for sure, and maybe the PLB or PLBs too. If a person separated from the ship is in trouble then it's unlikely the EPIRB will be to hand, so you use what you keep on your person -- the PLB.



You're going to get the same SAR response in any case, so it's just a question of what is the path of least resistance to getting the signal out, isn't it?

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I am willing to be educated if I'm wrong about this, but I have read here and there that the system is extremely reliable (part of its design spec) and that the risk of not getting your signal through is vanishingly low with PLB's if you are vaguely using the antenna right. I'd be glad to be corrected, however, if I am misinformed about this.

I expect the raw signal to get out, but I'm not particularly confident on anything beyond that. On land, that means I still prefer my inReach, although improvements to the system are making PLBs more attractive. It really does depend on specific application, but 2-way communications solves a great many problems.

Back around '03 or so, the USCG noticed that something like 2/3rds of beacon activations that should have included GPS location data didn't, so they ran a test, and other groups ran tests. This turned up significant problems with at least one maker (supposedly they redesigned their beacons after that). The devices are built to a spec that may not reflect actual operating conditions, and since actual performance data isn't that easy to find, I take the claims of bulletproof reliability with a big grain of salt. Note that the actual distress signal still got out, which is good enough if you can get within a few miles and then have the means to home in on a signal.

Originally Posted by Wotname

I don't know about RCC in other parts of the world but in Australia you can link any number of PLBs to your EPRIB registration and add notes to each one. I have (in the past) assigned names to each PLB and at other times, activities (and locations) that pertain to the PLB use apart form sailing. This is all user performed by a passworded access to the RCC registration database.

For the US, the registration site/forms allow you to enter comments and so you can update the site with trip-specific details before you go. (At least the paper forms don't have a field for linking PLBs to EPIRBs.)

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree with that entirely. So I would say if you're choosing between the two, buy the PLB first. The PLB is always on your person. Actually, a PLB for every crewman is a really good idea -- that's what we had in the Arctic last summer. Then if there's money left over -- and EPIRB for the ship. But I would start with the PLB, and keep it in your life jacket.

A PLB in Arctic waters may help them find a body for the family to bury, but that about all the good it or an EPIRB would do, unless in a survival suit and in a life raft., which if you have time for that, than surely you have the EPIRB, cause surely you have set it off well before abandoning.
Different beliefs I guess, plus in water that temp, batteries usefulness is cut way down.

Back to the Cheeki Rafiki incident, there were only a very few hits from the PLB’s two of them, but only a few seconds of transmission, then nothing. I’d bet that the antennas were in position for it to transmit for only a very short time, and even then intermittently, then not at all.
Had they had a class 1 EPIRB, it would have continued to transmit for many hours and it wouldn’t have saved them, but they would have been found much faster, it wouldn’t have been much of a search, it would have been go to the EPIRB and recover the bodies.

[a64pilot]

I’ve talked to people at the RCC in the US. They have a tendency not to get very excited if they only get one or two hits as there are more inadvertent triggering of these things from people playing with them than you may think.
However a continuous EPIRB signal, especially if accompanied with one or two PLB signals, (they know the difference) will really get things going as that looks like a classical accident.

Airplane EPIRBS are called ELT’s and of course are completely automatic like class 1 EPIRBS.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A PLB in Arctic waters may help them find a body for the family to bury, but that about all the good it or an EPIRB would do, unless in a survival suit and in a life raft., which if you have time for that, than surely you have the EPIRB, cause surely you have set it off well before abandoning.
Different beliefs I guess, plus in water that temp, batteries usefulness is cut way down.
...............

While it is true that cold will reduce battery capacity, the specified 48 hour battery life is predicated on an ambient temperature of -20C (-4F). The upshot is that useful battery life in the tropics way exceeds 48 hours.

I would imagine no one is sailing in water temperatures of -20C

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A PLB in Arctic waters may help them find a body for the family to bury, but that about all the good it or an EPIRB would do, unless in a survival suit and in a life raft., which if you have time for that, than surely you have the EPIRB, cause surely you have set it off well before abandoning.
Different beliefs I guess, plus in water that temp, batteries usefulness is cut way down..

Well, I've always said, and I've written in this very thread, that I don't think a PLB is useful for MOB, even in mild waters, much less the Arctic. The point of having PLB's on everyone, is for people getting lost or in trouble on land (we were hiking and climbing), or separated from each other (we have two different life rafts), or to backup the EPIRB in case it's lost or malfunctions or gets left behind when abandoning.


I wouldn't assume that you can't abandon ship without bringing the EPIRB with you. I've minimized that risk as much as possible -- it lives in the grab bag -- but stuff happens. I've heard of people fumbling and losing EPIRBs in the panic of a sudden abandon ship (the nighmare scenario up there is hull split by a collision with a growler, and the boat goes right down). There may not be any "well before abandoning". One should not underestimate the value of PLBs being capable of being carried on one's person.

[iduff]

Belt, suspenders, and staple yer pants on.

I have an EPIRB for the boat, and each Spinlock Deckvest has both an Ocean Signal RescueMe MOB1 and an ACR ResQLink+.

First rule of MOB is not go overboard, hence the tether and jacklines. However, once overboard, I want to be able to find the MOB, hence the Ocean Signal RescueMe MOB1. If I can't find the MOB, and they don't get hypothermic, they can set off the ACR ResQLink+.

If we have some sort of emergency that does not require the life raft, we have a DSC VHF. Before we go offshore, we'll have both satphone and DSC SSB. Our current SSB is older, and pre-DSC, so we'll be upgrading before offshore frolics.

If we have to set up into the life raft, we have the EPIRB. If the EPIRB fails, or shuts down before rescue, we each have that mini-EPIRB, our ACR ResQLink+.

Cat 1 vs Cat 2 EPIRB describes how it's activated, as stated in earlier posts. Cat 1 is automagic, which you most likely do not want. Cat 2 is manual deployment, which is what we, and most of our friends, have. Since cat 2 is what I chose, and it IS all about me after all, it's what you should choose <grin>.

[liferaft]

Major differences:
PLB designed to operate for 24 hours at -20, EPIRB is 48 hours at -20

PLB has to be switched on manually. EPIRB has a water activated switch (disarmed when in its bracket) so it will start when put in the drink. It can also be manually activated.

PLB will NOT float with its antenna out of the water. Most require an extra buoyant pouch to float adequately but that does not address the antenna. EPIRB is designed to float with the antenna out of the water.

I am now retired but used to sell and service these devices.

[zengirl]

EBIRB is registered to your vessel, this needs to be attached to vessel. PLB is registered to you. The difference of l and ll is.... EBIRB class l is automatically deployed when under 6' of water, class ll needs to be deployed manually.

[JustCroozin]

I have to chime in here... PLBs are for people, not boats. I do sea rescue work and Ive been on a recent search involving an MOB who had a PLB. After the first initial ping from the PLB, we didn't get another one for over 12 hours. Found the PLB but never found the person. As other posters have pointed out, PLBs don't float upright, so you need to hold them that way for the signal to be effective. Many PLBs don't float at all and most are not designed for a marine environment. Where I live, EPIRBs are mandatory safety equipment if you're heading offshore and a PLB does not comply. By all means use both, but don't rely on a PLB alone.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by zengirl

EBIRB is registered to your vessel, this needs to be attached to vessel. . .

Why does it need to be attached to the vessel? I think just about everyone would take it with them into the life raft.

[JustCroozin]

Oh, and do yourself a favour and put your EPIRB and spare flares in a life cell. They float free if you forget to grab them when you're abandoning ship, and if you don't manage to get into a life raft you will have something to hang on to!!

[zengirl]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Why does it need to be attached to the vessel? I think just about everyone would take it with them into the life raft.

I agree. This is what is suggested by mfg, not sure if by CG.

[JustCroozin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Two-way communications are extremely valuable, but such devices as "In-Reach" are not part of the GMDSS system. They won't work if your subscription runs out (Rebel Heart case) or if the messaging center mishandles your message or if the rechargeable battery runs out or doesn't happen to be charged up or if there is some kind of disruption in the Iridium system which handles vast volumes of ordinary traffic.



EPIRBs and PLB's are specific dedicated distress signalling devices which are primary elements of the GMDSS system and which connect directly to SAR services and not via some messaging center. They can't be used for ordinary traffic and don't have rechargeable batteries, so all you do is keep them in date and you can depend on their being power. On top of all that, they emit a 121.5mhz homing signal to guide the rescuers in for the last mile.


In-Reach is great -- but in ADDITION to an EPIRB or PLB, not INSTEAD. Pop the EPIRB first; then start trying to raise two-way comms, in case of a disaster.

121.5 MHz is used by aircraft and RDF equipment. The 406 MHz EPIRB signal and associated GPS coordinates are what we rely on to find you.

[JustCroozin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Why does it need to be attached to the vessel? I think just about everyone would take it with them into the life raft.

It's not a requirement for it to be attached to the vessel, but it's a good idea to tie it off to the vessel for as long as it's still floating (you're still on it then, right....) If you're getting into a life boat then you'll be cutting it free and taking it with you!