Advices on electronics

[rbk]

Although la Conner does change things a bit. Is it in shelter bay? While it can be done you’ll have to be cautious navigating and exiting the channel.

[stormalong]

I have been to LaConner a few times. It is up a river and has shallow areas. I would consider a depth sounder essential in that area. It also has strong tidal flows so a good running engine and knowledge of how to use tide tables are needed. Good ground tackle too.

How is it that a Valiant 40 has no electronics? Or is it just all broken?

[Copacabana]

For about USD99 you can get a fishfinder for depth. No haul out needed to install- just a find a flat place in the hull below the waterline and glue the transducer in place with silicone. It comes with a mounting bracket, so you can make a temporary installation anywhere for the trip and then install it in a more tidy manner later.

As others mentioned above, I think a tablet or mobile phone with Navionics or similar would be enough for the trip. Then, once you get to the dock for the refit, you can approach the choice of electronics with more time and research it better.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

just a find a flat place in the hull below the waterline and glue the transducer in place with silicone.

Easier said than done on a Valiant lol

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by rbk

Easier said than done on a Valiant lol

I should have said "flatish" place. My boat also doesn't have much flat space in the hull, but both of the transducers I installed work fine.

You can test a few locations before you install it by making a little "pool" with plasticine and filling it with water to test the transducer reading.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

I should have said "flatish" place. My boat also doesn't have much flat space in the hull, but both of the transducers I installed work fine.

You can test a few locations before you install it by making a little "pool" with plasticine and filling it with water to test the transducer reading.

Plasticine, for us non Britsh in oil based clay, commonly sold for children's play. You can also fill a baggie with water for testing locations.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Plasticine, for us non Britsh in oil based clay, commonly sold for children's play. You can also fill a baggie with water for testing locations.

I tried the ziplock bag with water, but it didn't work for me. I think it's because the inside of my hull is not a smooth finish (coarse cloth finish) and there were air pockets under the ziplock bag. If the baggie works, of course it will be easier and less messy.

The other nice thing about a fishfinder is that, besides depth, it also gives you bottom type (mud, sand, rocks etc.) and relief, water temperature, battery voltage and you can see the fish under your hull!

[TheRailRoader]

Okay so far I have decided Garmin axiom 9, standard horizon gx 1300 and new transducers too.

Between posts here and advices from my brother and co-workers I think this should be enough for the trip. Do the rest as we go.

The boat does have existing transducers as well, may see if they are compatible and use them for the trip over and haul out in Canada and install the new transducers then, do the sea cocks as well. But if the transducers are not compatible maybe we will do the fish finder idea lol. The boat does have some electronics but they are all dated or broken.

Rbk it is at the la conner marina, that's all I know.. sorry.

RR

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by thomm225

It's a good idea for some but not all. New sailors used to all the modern conveniences would probably freak out just using a compass and a 40 year old chart to navigate by

Being a sailor/boater with experience in my area and others with many years on the water, I use the compass to get close enough to my destination then I use familiar landmasses, towers, channel markers etc along with the old charts

This type navigation came quite naturally to me after not having a compass or chart while boating/sailing for many years. (and usually no radio either) This is the first boat (bought in 2011) I have had out of my 12 or so boats with any instruments at all

Many times before when out of sight of land, I used the Sun or a familiar star just to get me headed in the general direction I needed to go to get in sight of land then navigate from there by whatever was available from channel markers, buoys, land masses, water towers, and other boats coming and going thru an inlet or pass

Usually the only worry back in the day (on my power boats) was how much gas I had and was the old engine running ok, but I was a teenager or in my early 20's back then so at that age you don't sweat the small stuff

Coming into unfamiliar, narrow, and rough inlets though was still worrisome but at least the land was close so my thinking was to swim for it if I somehow swamped and lost the boat

No, using a 30 year old paper chart with a handheld compass isn’t a good idea for anyone, ever .... period. Are you even aware that magnetic north changes continuously? Making your 30-40 year old charts extremely obsolete, outdated and even dangerous to use.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by TheRailRoader

Okay so far I have decided Garmin axiom 9, standard horizon gx 1300 and new transducers too.

Between posts here and advices from my brother and co-workers I think this should be enough for the trip. Do the rest as we go.

The boat does have existing transducers as well, may see if they are compatible and use them for the trip over and haul out in Canada and install the new transducers then, do the sea cocks as well. But if the transducers are not compatible maybe we will do the fish finder idea lol. The boat does have some electronics but they are all dated or broken.

Rbk it is at the la conner marina, that's all I know.. sorry.

RR

Before buying and mixing brands you should look for some of the package deals from various brands. Most come with chartplotter radar and nmea backbone to get you started and most are ais ready and only require a transponder. IMO these are the way to go, all compatible more or less plug and play for ad on like fuel, wind etc and quit a price break vs buying individual components. IMO electronics are disposable and buying ‘the best’ will be the worse in 5 years and there are much better and more important thing to spend money on, lots and lots and lots of money.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

No, using a 30 year old paper chart with a handheld compass isn’t a good idea for anyone, ever .... period. Are you even aware that magnetic north changes continuously? Making your 30-40 year old charts extremely obsolete, outdated and even dangerous to use.

Usually I use other things besides the compass and old chart. Once you get in close, many times the action of the waves will tell you where the deeper water is. Remember though, the compass is backup to my 1990's Garmin GPS 120

I believe the old foldout chart (which was the PO's) I've used the most over the past 8 years is only 30 years old or so. I mainly use it (and the GPS) when going around the edge of a shoal or to get an idea of the depth in the creek or bay where I'm headed into

Other times as you near land, you can use onshore tall buildings, towers etc until you see the buoys or channel markers

Like I said before, this is the first boat I've had where I even had a compass, chart, or any electronics and I navigated fine when out of sight of land. I've owned like 12 boats

When you grow up 4 miles from the Atlantic Ocean and 5 miles from The Chesapeake Bay at it's widest point, you spend a lot of time on the water at a young age and learn a few things. I think I started around 1964 or so going fishing on the sea side for flounder with the neighbor kids on their Dad's Chincoteague Scow. Their Grand Pop still used and old handline to fish with

I also fished with a guy whose grass I used to cut. (I was 10 or 11 then) We fished Metompkin Inlet (Ocean Side) for flounder and sometimes fished outside a bit. You could catch doormat size flounder back then on minnows

Garmin antenna taped to stern railing left in picture.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by TheRailRoader

Okay so far I have decided Garmin axiom 9, standard horizon gx 1300 and new transducers too.

Between posts here and advices from my brother and co-workers I think this should be enough for the trip. Do the rest as we go.

The boat does have existing transducers as well, may see if they are compatible and use them for the trip over and haul out in Canada and install the new transducers then, do the sea cocks as well. But if the transducers are not compatible maybe we will do the fish finder idea lol. The boat does have some electronics but they are all dated or broken.

Thought "Axiom" was a Raymarine thing...?

In any case, for a short trip and if not networked with other stuff... not really better than a decent tablet app.

An installation under duress -- i.e., without shopping the hole target system as if it will eventually be a coherent network -- can lock you into ways you didn't know you don't want to go.

Many OEM transducers are made by Airmar, so maybe it's possible your existing trandsucers can be made to work with various displays, either basic sounder or fishfinder.

-Chris

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Usually I use other things besides the compass and old chart. Once you get in close, many times the action of the waves will tell you where the deeper water is. Remember though, the compass is backup to my 1990's Garmin GPS 120

I believe the old foldout chart (which was the PO's) I've used the most over the past 8 years is only 30 years old or so. I mainly use it (and the GPS) when going around the edge of a shoal or to get an idea of the depth in the creek or bay where I'm headed into

Other times as you near land, you can use onshore tall buildings, towers etc until you see the buoys or channel markers

Like I said before, this is the first boat I've had where I even had a compass, chart, or any electronics and I navigated fine when out of sight of land. I've owned like 12 boats

When you grow up 4 miles from the Atlantic Ocean and 5 miles from The Chesapeake Bay at it's widest point, you spend a lot of time on the water at a young age and learn a few things. I think I started around 1964 or so going fishing on the sea side for flounder with the neighbor kids on their Dad's Chincoteague Scow. Their Grand Pop still used and old handline to fish with

I also fished with a guy whose grass I used to cut. (I was 10 or 11 then) We fished Metompkin Inlet (Ocean Side) for flounder and sometimes fished outside a bit. You could catch doormat size flounder back then on minnows

Garmin antenna taped to stern railing left in picture.

Absolutely nobody on this forum is going to agree with you regarding the use of a 30-40 year old chart and handheld compass being a good idea for navigation. I'm guessing that you're totally unaware that magnetic north is continuously moving, and over the course of 30-40 years it's nowhere near where your historic rendering places it...

Anyone can navigate a lake or bay using a dated chart, just like a blind person can navigate safely around the inside of their own house; BUT... it's not the same or as easy when they go outside.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Absolutely nobody on this forum is going to agree with you regarding the use of a 30-40 year old chart and handheld compass being a good idea for navigation. I'm guessing that you're totally unaware that magnetic north is continuously moving, and over the course of 30-40 years it's nowhere near where your historic rendering places it...

Anyone can navigate a lake or bay using a dated chart, just like a blind person can navigate safely around the inside of their own house; BUT... it's not the same or as easy when they go outside.

Well, I'm not looking for agreement from some people I don't know on an internet forum. I'd rather trust my own judgement based on years of experience.

And BTW, I've been outside many times.

Off the coast of North Carolina, I used the Sun as the guide to get back within site of land. We used to like to go offshore on nice days to ride the easy moving ocean waves and see the tankers. This off Morehead City and on up towards Cape Lookout.

Once though I had to come in Swansboro Inlet and that was a bit hairy as I had never been in there and had no electronics, compass, or chart onboard. Plus it was quite rough coming in on my 17' power boat with 55 HP 4 stroke Homelite Bearcat engine. I was around 22 years old at the time. This was in 1977

Sailing back in 15 miles or so off the Mississippi Gulf Coast on my 17' beach cat I used the Beau Rivage Casio in Biloxi as guide. I think this was the Ship Island race. You need a guide when you have the lead and since I was singlehanding with a spinnaker it wasn't to hard to take the lead with a decent start. This was during the 2nd race which was the return from the island back to shore. (the 2004 race I believe)

Once in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay maybe 15 miles from land on either side, we decided to head in after fishing (and drinking) until dark. We were talking and joking as I pulled in the anchor and the boat turned so I lost my direct. By this time, it was dark and you could see lights on towers on both side of the bay. I was living in Arizona at the time and was only home on leave. I used the North Star to get oriented then came back in .......but it was the wrong creek but we made it back. This was in the Summer of 1980

I think the first time I drove a boat was when I was maybe 7 years old or so. It was an old 16' molded plywood Whirlwind I believe with 40 hp Johnson. The adults were in the back drinking Ballentine Beer and I was driving .....not planed out. The owner Mike would just say things like.......see that big tree on that point...head for that. We did this the whole 10-12 miles to the beach we were headed to

My high school was on a creek off the bay. You could smell when it was low tide.

The point is all these experiences help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gUnhcYLTdE

[Kenomac]

Thanks for providing and excellent example of WHAT NOT TO DO.