AIS different brands any good??

[jeffrobbins]

Originally Posted by continuouswave

I don't think the GROL license applies specifically to MMSI or other AIS static data entry.

That's right. The regulation doesn't permit programming the MMSI by an end user or boat owner regardless of any license they may have. Rather strict as sailjumanji points out and tends to be a pain for everyone involved I'm afraid.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I've got a new-build catamaran on its way to the US. Will be here in a month. Taking delivery in Miami as we planned to head to Bahamas right after commissioning. Applied for documentation number, but afraid that will be delayed by government shutdown. After I get that, can apply to FCC for ships station license and MMSI. THEN can order an AIS, once I have MMSI number. Thought I would try to gain some time by ordering the AIS - even buy direct from Vesper New Zealand - but they refused as US law says they have to program units sold in US. If you're a US consumer, the restrictions are pretty tight.

I found a way around this. I applied early for the FCC license, and used the HIN rather than the Doc No. That allowed me to get the SA license, MMSI, and AIS well in advance of the boat being ready to go.


Otherwise you are in a real pickle, as you describe. Documenting a new boat can easily take 6 months under normal conditions, and this shutdown will likely push it out months more.


Another workaround that I explored, but didn't try, is to get the USCG Doc No assigned in advance. It can be done, but I don't recall what paperwork is required, and how far along the build needs to be. But there is a way to get the number assigned, even though you won't be fully documented until the whole process is complete.

[DeepFrz]

Check Panbo, there are some AIS units that don't respond under certain situations. It seems to be related to a certain chip.

AIS issues: Garmin, Navico, McMurdo, AMEC and SRT
Garmin still not displaying AIS AtoNs

https://www.panbo.com/ais-issues-gar...-amec-and-srt/

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

...Garmin still not displaying AIS AtoNs

https://www.panbo.com/ais-issues-gar...-amec-and-srt/

Apparently Garmin is "still" working on a fix.

Of course, when it's ready, that new fix will be available to any Garmin MFD purchased within the last 15 or 20 minutes.

Otherwise, you have a "legacy" device and need to throw it away and buy a new one. Gotta love Garmin support!

Sigh.

[DeepFrz]

An article to be aware of for sure.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I found a way around this. I applied early for the FCC license, and used the HIN rather than the Doc No. That allowed me to get the SA license, MMSI, and AIS well in advance of the boat being ready to go.


Otherwise you are in a real pickle, as you describe. Documenting a new boat can easily take 6 months under normal conditions, and this shutdown will likely push it out months more.


Another workaround that I explored, but didn't try, is to get the USCG Doc No assigned in advance. It can be done, but I don't recall what paperwork is required, and how far along the build needs to be. But there is a way to get the number assigned, even though you won't be fully documented until the whole process is complete.

Thanks for the FCC advice, and I'll check it out. RE the documentation number, govt won't do it without a builders certificate. That's not issued until near completion. Plus we had to get the original for submission. That said, the doc company we are using said that overseas boats heading to US get priority handling as quick as a couple of weeks. It's just that govt needs to be open to process! Ditto for FCC. Plus since we are going full Monte, I also have a passport undergoing renewal!

[bvander]

Originally Posted by davil

Checking AIS transponders with screen besides the most known Icom and Vespers ran into these two products in Amazon,prices are competitive and like if there members who have experience with these two manufactures

Matsutec

ONWA

thank you

Everyone loves Vesper and yes it's good, but other good brands out there.
Digital Yacht is an option.
Also had great success with EM-Trac easy instal and set up. Initial program via your laptop. NEMA 2000, has remote transmit on/of, nice mount. We have seen excellent range, 30 nm÷.

If just looking at recieve only best option is buy a new VHF, most have integrated AIS receiver.

[Nicholson58]

We are big supporters for Vesper. In addition to AIS it is the best anchor watch I can think of. Our 850 uses only about 7 watts so we never turn it off. Use it also to locate your ‘fleet’ of friends as you approach or pass a harbor. Our Vesper absolutely saved our skins several times sailing between Caribbean islands at night.

[bvander]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

We are big supporters for Vesper. In addition to AIS it is the best anchor watch I can think of. Our 850 uses only about 7 watts so we never turn it off. Use it also to locate your ‘fleet’ of friends as you approach or pass a harbor. Our Vesper absolutely saved our skins several times sailing between Caribbean islands at night.

EM-TRAC IS 1.6W

[Paul Kelly]

I have had a Matsutec HP-528A for about 5 or 6 years. It's AIS B, so transmits as well as receives. It's about half the price of the Vespa (or less), has a colour screen and is a really good piece of kit. It also has built in GPS. The only downside is that if you range the AIS alarm too close (or too far) it continually goes off and interrupts the screen. So I tend to range the alarm to zero. It's a standalone unit and I don't think it interfaces with any other kit. But I rate it highly. The one I have is quite an old model now and they may have brought out a new version.

[Eight Sails]

Originally Posted by bvander

EM-TRAC IS 1.6W

I haven't yet installed an AIS transceiver--holding off to follow the trends.


As a Canadian boater on Lake Ontario, with New York on the other side and an international border running down the middle of the lake, I've found this discussion of US legal restrictions on AIS transceivers useful. The brand loyalty discussion, less so, in a rapidly changing technology and vendor marketplace....



FWIW these are my personal considerations when looking at current tranceivers on the market: I already receive AIS targets from my VHF (Standard Horizon Matrix DSM); already have WiFi and instrument data sharing, thanks to two existing sources on board (OpenPlotter/Rasberry Pi at the nav station, B&G plotter in the cockpit); pay close attention to the power draw of all electronics after once running the batteries down to nothing on a long solo race (the quoted 7W draw for Vesper doesn't impress me); noticed on my last cruise that the large increase in Class B AIS transceivers on recreational boats, combined with the heavy boat traffic in popular boating areas like the Thousand Islands, has resulted in many Class B AIS-equipped boats disappearing and reappearing sporadically, which to my mind is worse than if they didn't appear at all (the Class A commercial AIS vessels are always displayed).



With those considerations in mind, it puzzles me that "nice-to-have" features like Wi-Fi weigh so heavily in this discussion, while "must-have" features like reliable transmission in crowded waters and antenna splitting for use with an existing VHF antenna haven't been mentioned at all.



Without commenting on any particular brands, I would rule out any AIS 2W AIS transceiver and only consider the newer 5W transceivers -- then further narrow my selection according to the power draw of the unit and the availability of an internal splitter. The difference between premium brands and lower-cost brands is arguable. The difference between lower-priced 2W transceivers and higher-priced 5W transceivers is crucial.



The difference between the 2W and 5W Class B transmitters is much more than just transmit power. Class B 2W units use a different access technology that can't reserve a data transmission slot in heavy AIS traffic conditions, which means they suffer from missed transmissions and may disappear or not show up at all when they can't transmit their data in a crowded waterway. That's what I was seeing (and sometimes not seeing) on my last cruise. The Class B 5W units use an access technology that reserves a guaranteed transmission slot, same as the Class A commercial units. That makes a whole lot more difference in my book than whether the unit has Wi-Fi or not!


No doubt all the top brands are going this way but both Class B versions are still being sold and there's still take-up for the 2W units among budget conscious buyers--IMO wasted money, even for a slow moving displacement sailboat that doesn't absolutely have to update its position every 30 seconds. Bottom line: high transmission reliability combined with low power consumption would top my list of priorities. Otherwise, I'd see no point upgrading from receive-only AIS to a transceiver. (That said, if I were pulling the trigger today, I'd probably go with EmTrac for the features I really need at a price I care to pay.) I'd not buy a 2W Class B unit from any vendor, so late in the day for that technology.

[nrx500]

I don't know whether you're talking about a type A with integrated screen and keyboard as required on commercial vessels or a type B+ which is just a black box that runs on your NMEA 2000 network with your chart plotter.
I started with a Si-Tex that worked for one season, then became intermittent. Si-Tex hooked it up to an antenna at their shop, said it was OK, then charged me $70. It was unreliable when they shipped it back. It was still under their 2 yr warranty, but they wouldn't replace it. I have a Har.in AIS 800 black box now and it is certified as a B+ device.
If you carry passengers for hire, buy type A. If not, go B+

[nrx500]

In my post I tried to type Garmin AIS 800, but Garmin was left out. BTW, the separate GPS antenna on the Garmin is optional. Mine is mounted below a fiberglass deck and works fine with its internal GPS antenna. It also has a VHF splitter and can be wired with a silence switch so it receives, but doesn't send.
I have an Icom M605 VHF MMSI/AIS capable on the NMEA 2000 network with a Garmin GPS 8616 INCH xsv plotter. Both the Icom and Garmin 800 report AIS targets to the chartplotter, but the chartplotter ignores my boat's AIS signal as it should.

Ig you are an ardent sail racer B&G builds excellent units. If not, look at Garmin. Their tech works, is reliable, and you can still get answers by phone and email.

[Eight Sails]

Originally Posted by nrx500

I don't know whether you're talking about a type A with integrated screen and keyboard as required on commercial vessels or a type B+ which is just a black box that runs on your NMEA 2000 network with your chart plotter.

I'm talking about Type B+, compared to older Type B, both types being boxes installed on the network. Having an integrated screen and keyboard is OK on a ship's bridge, hardly practical on a small boat.
Cheaping out on the brand isn't a good idea. Having said that, there are reputable mid-priced brands worth considering and Garmin's acquisition of Vesper at the high end might not seem like such a good thing unless you're invested in the Garmin ecosystem.
The question of USCG and FCC certification and owner's right to enter vessel data is interesting not only for non-US boaters who might find their equipment illegal in US waters. It's also interesting for the open source software and hardware community. The cheapest AIS receiver, at least, isn't on Amazon or AliBaba. It's a ten buck SDR (Software Defined Radio) USB stick with a home brewed antenna. No doubt there are similar open source AIS transceiver projects out there by now and they'd be totally illegal for the price of a teenager's allowance.

[Eight Sails]

Indeed, here is a link to an open source, do-it-yourself project called MAIANA ™: The Open Source AIS Transponder: https://open-boat-projects.org/en/di...faenger-sende/


There is a legal disclaimer, mainly aimed at European users, as there should be, but also an unsubstantiated, hearsay claim that "the legal situation in the USA is different. There you can use devices you have built yourself in transmission mode if the transmission power is limited," which I would treat with much skepticism in the case of AIS.

OpenCPN is my go-to chart navigation software and has been for years, "downstairs" at the nav table. An open source AIS transponder would be a bridge too far, and its potential to put other AIS users at risk if malfunctioning or not properly engineered is disturbing, although I have to applaud the ingenuity and sheer chutzpah of it.