Autopilot - Raymarine vs Furuno

[nfbr]

Normally current is much less, but when speeds get above 14knts or sagassum wraps rudder, it can get heavy.

Then it will warn overcurrent on display before disengage.

The silent trip is at any time, not when working hard. No display change.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The Furuno APs are well built, but they are more focused on fishing boats than sailboats. Lots of fishing patterns available that we would never use. Basic sail to course, sail to compass and sail to wind, which we do use.

Furuno wants to compete with Navico in terms of having all of that stuff, but unlike Navico, they don't split the features by brand for sail vs power vs fishing optimized. You just get everything in one bucket.

[TBW]

Furuno
Quality and
HELP! when you need it

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Reason for change

a) ST3 drops to standby silently every 1-4 hrs. Sucks at night.
Common on internet. Some say voltage. I have thick wires. It's not that.

b) Hoping newer will have better rudder response with better gyros.

From experiece with Raymarine Tillermates, the unit is sensing low voltage on its input and is disconnecting.
If you never have the probllem under power, that would confirm the hypothesis.
I suggest you check your betteries, rather than the aoutopilot.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by TBW

Furuno
Quality and
HELP! when you need it

their leisure range is not any getter quality , if you open it up, its construction ( PCBs mounting comformal coating , etc ) and quality is very similar to Raymarine and others . In terms of help I have always found direct contact with Raymarine and Garmin tech people excellent ( both are UK based)

IN my case Ive had Furuno , Garmin and Ray , all the stuff lasted years and was replaced while still functioning

[skipmac]

Current boat I installed a B&G/Simrad AP. Most of the bits: computer, compass, heading sensor, etc are identical except for the logo. In the past the B&G was more sail oriented, Simrad power but that is not the case for several years.

So far extremely happy with the system after 5-6000 km. Holds a dead straight course, even downwind with good sized following seas and very low power use. This is in a 42' boat with a large, barn door rudder that does take a bit of work to steer.

Would buy the same again without hesitation.

Other comments

- As Frankly mentioned, the Raymarine connectors are smaller so fit through smaller holes which can make installation easier but they are not compatible with standard Devicement NMEA connectors without adapters.
- I believe most of the big ocean racers use NKE autopilots so assume they will have fastest response and greater power than other units but can't say from personal experience.
- When I installed the new system I kept the old Raymarine linear mechanical drive and have been very happy with that. Plenty of power and very quiet which is a consideration for me since the drive is right under the bed in the aft cabin.

[Siberian Sea]

In my opinion almost everything made by Furuno is better then Raymarine. Raymarine is towards the bottom, yes it’s very popular in the pleasure craft industry but in the commercial industry Furuno is the industry standard and for good reasons. I own a commercial fishing boat in Alaska and with the exception of my radios I only buy Furuno. I did the same on my sailboat and have yet to have any problems. For radios I like Icom, Standard and Sailor

[chasfgr]

Most gear made by Furono, is more"professional" and expensive than Raymarine. The latter, like Henry Ford, aims at the mass market.
The equipment is reliable, economically priced and can be easily networked.
For most recreational sailors the functionality of Raymarine gear is adequate - their tillerpilots are still the "best" avaiable at a price.
I have one of the originals which I bought the year they came out - it stll works, albeit in a series of jerks with no smoothing.

[aqfishing]

As a commercial fisherman I mostly fit Furuno equipment, it outlasts everything. I have however come to love my Raymarine equipment on our charter yacht. Our last yacht was a Sunsail Leopard 44 and the Raymarine auto never gave any hassles in the 5 years we owned it. If it can handle a charter yacht, then it can’t be bad!

As you have Raymarine already I would highly suggest you stick with the same brand. Yes they supposedly all integrate and talk to each other, but it just works better with the same brand. If you have 2 different brands and something is faulty or not working 100%, I can promise you the tech’s from the one brand will blame your problem on the other brand and vice versa.

If you can afford it, go for a good quality satellite compass instead of a regular heading sensor or flux gate compass. I have converted all my vessels to these and they are excellent. No more worrying about someone putting something metallic near your heading sensor. They are sooo much more accurate and reliable. We also did not go for the cheapest one, got kinda the next one up. The Koden was good value at around $2000. I have a Simrad and Furuno as well. All good. The bigger the Sat compass the better.
I suggest you go for Raymarine auto and Sat compass. The extra cost may not be all that much as you will not need the heading sensor.
Good luck.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by chasfgr

Most gear made by Furono, is more"professional" and expensive than Raymarine. The latter, like Henry Ford, aims at the mass market.
The equipment is reliable, economically priced and can be easily networked.
For most recreational sailors the functionality of Raymarine gear is adequate - their tillerpilots are still the "best" avaiable at a price.
I have one of the originals which I bought the year they came out - it stll works, albeit in a series of jerks with no smoothing.

I've priced a bit out and the Furuno stuff is pretty comparable in cost to the top of the line stuff from Raymarine, Simrad, etc. The difference in price is mostly that the others offer options below that level, Furuno doesn't. They just have one upper-market option in their non-commercial gear.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Siberian Sea

In my opinion almost everything made by Furuno is better then Raymarine. Raymarine is towards the bottom, yes it’s very popular in the pleasure craft industry but in the commercial industry Furuno is the industry standard and for good reasons. I own a commercial fishing boat in Alaska and with the exception of my radios I only buy Furuno. I did the same on my sailboat and have yet to have any problems. For radios I like Icom, Standard and Sailor

There is no actual evidence to back up your claims. Furuno do well in commercial environments because they have maintained a servicing dealer based distribution model. This results in expensive costs but commercial users have totally different priorities to leisure sailors. Ray , B&G , Garmin etc have embraced a less formal distribution with internet sales channels etc this tends to lead to price discounting ( channel conflict ) and leads to box shifting.

But if you open a Furuno leisure MFD the quality of manufacture is very similar to Ray , Garmin and B&G

The fact is I have 16 year old Ray kit still working perfectly and in fact in recent years I’ve replaced nav equipment from B&G , Garmin and Ray that in all cases was still working.

By all means buy what suits you. But claims that one brand is materially better then another doesn’t stand up to scrutiny

( in my fishing harbour locally , Furuno is not the most prolific amongst the trawlers , even though the installing dealer is very competent)

[nofacey]

Had a close friend on a 50 ft cruising sailboat that had exactly the same autopilot issues (= silent drop out)…..deadly for a solo ocean cruiser. Went thru much grief with limited Raymarine support…..turned out to be failing steering gear.

Combined with high drive amps……suggest look at your steering force with AP detached.

[nfbr]

Originally Posted by nofacey

Had a close friend on a 50 ft cruising sailboat that had exactly the same autopilot issues (= silent drop out)…..deadly for a solo ocean cruiser. Went thru much grief with limited Raymarine support…..turned out to be failing steering gear.

Combined with high drive amps……suggest look at your steering force with AP detached.

Maybe. I have two motors so can try swapping. Normally if rudder jams with sargassum, then I get “Current Limit” and trip.
My system is 3 pumps in parallel. Helm and 2 x autopilot. Easy to see. Normal amps is <10

[DeValency]

Furuno has a good name as a reliable well made manufacturer. Not sure it is critical for a pleasure sailboat. I have a Raymarine X-10 AP, 15 years old and it works fine. The only small problem I had last year was a loss of power to drive the massive rack & pinion electric Mamba Drive (by Lewmar), probably by a weakened triac on the board. After a call with Ray, they confirmed, I could bypass the issue with a $7 external relay instead of buying a $800 new controller.

The installation is very important. A lot of APs generates issues due to poor installation. Interference to the electric compass, misaligned rudder sensor and poor installation of (or selection of the correct) the drive unit etc.

As the OP has already other Ray instruments, IMO, better to go with Ray to make the integration easier.

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Your description of the Ray AP going to Standby is typical of the Rays. It is a really annoying and possibly an unsafe way to fail. Think of surfing off a big wave and the AP just decides to give up and go to standby.

That is one reason why I like my Furuno AP. If it detects any error it will alarm, but it keeps trying to drive. A far safer way to fail.
I have about 40,000 miles on my Furuno AP and L&S drive. Both very good. The Furuno APs are well built, but they are more focused on fishing boats than sailboats. Lots of fishing patterns available that we would never use. Basic sail to course, sail to compass and sail to wind, which we do use.

Certainly agree, why does the Raymarine Fail to hold its course for a few moments and then just give up with a barely audible warning, it should just pick up the course again or at least be screaming at you.
I can accept that sometimes it might not hold a course due to conditions but it really needs to pick up the course again or have a user setting to decide what the action should be. Maybe if I could set my own course failure time.
Also I have a Tiller and the Evo doesn’t have a long enough stroke to control the tiller - The ST2000+ was better in control but had woeful build quality.
Not surprised the parent company FLIR is trying to off load them - really damaged FLIRs reputation,, in my eyes at least.
But I do still have RM and will probably end up buying more RM in the future as the bit I don’t like I already have.