B&G vs. Garmin

[Pelagic]

Great summary CarlF!

I chose FURUNO for all my new electronics specifically because of the stability of the company and that their products have always had the best MTBF (mean time between failures) in the commercial marine and fishing industry.

FURUNO conservatively tends to let the others lead the way with new features, then re-engineers the hardware after observing the failures of their competitors.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Great summary CarlF!

I chose FURUNO for all my new electronics specifically because of the stability of the company and that their products have always had the best MTBF (mean time between failures) in the commercial marine and fishing industry.

FURUNO conservatively tends to let the others lead the way with new features, then re-engineers the hardware after observing the failures of their competitors.

Further to Furuno, unlike Garmin, Raymarine et al, the company does make their equipment schematics and parts available to electronics repair technicians that can make needed repairs when necessary. The company also supports legacy equipment far, far longer than any of the others.

FWIW...

[John Holbrook]

Furuno has hovered between small profits and losses in recent years. They probably don't have enough money to do R&D and lead with new features. They may not survive or dramatically reduce their range like many other Japanese electronic companies, Sanyo, JVC, AIWA, Hitachi, NEC, Toshiba, Pioneer, etc.

Personally I think Furuno is far from stable.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Great summary CarlF!

I chose FURUNO for all my new electronics specifically because of the stability of the company and that their products have always had the best MTBF (mean time between failures) in the commercial marine and fishing industry.

FURUNO conservatively tends to let the others lead the way with new features, then re-engineers the hardware after observing the failures of their competitors.

[svrevelations]

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

Furuno has hovered between small profits and losses in recent years. They probably don't have enough money to do R&D and lead with new features. They may not survive or dramatically reduce their range like many other Japanese electronic companies, Sanyo, JVC, AIWA, Hitachi, NEC, Toshiba, Pioneer, etc.

Personally I think Furuno is far from stable.

Wow! Unfair comment in my humble opinion.

1. What is the basis for your "no money for R&D" statement?
2. "They may not survive ..." - where do you get this?

If this is to be said of a company who most likely have the largest market share, who for many years produced quality and in some cases, innovative products - what is to be said of the smaller companies? We have a bunch of Furuno products on our yacht and without question find them to be unquestionable reliable workhorses - and with a long life legacy. I will have no hesitation with Furuno products.

[sailjumanji]

I don't think there is a Garmin equivalent to B&G 4G radar. Garmin HD does not stack up. And I have B&G Zeus 2 and 4G radar on the sailboat, along with Vesper AIS and Icom VHF, each of which I consider best in class. On the fishing boat I have Garmin, and have historically owned Garmin. But very happy with the B&G sail steer and especially radar.

[John Holbrook]

Hey Revelations I did say "probably don't have enough money to do R&D and lead with new features" not what you have quoted.

May not survive / Where did I get this... Furuno's P&L for the last five years shows three years losses and two years of profits.

Size and quality yes maybe but look at Sony news Nokia... now a shadows of their former selves.

Originally Posted by Revelations

Wow! Unfair comment in my humble opinion.

1. What is the basis for your "no money for R&D" statement?
2. "They may not survive ..." - where do you get this?

If this is to be said of a company who most likely have the largest market share, who for many years produced quality and in some cases, innovative products - what is to be said of the smaller companies? We have a bunch of Furuno products on our yacht and without question find them to be unquestionable reliable workhorses - and with a long life legacy. I will have no hesitation with Furuno products.

[svrevelations]

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

Hey Revelations I did say "probably don't have enough money to do R&D and lead with new features" not what you have quoted.

May not survive / Where did I get this... Furuno's P&L for the last five years shows three years losses and two years of profits.

Size and quality yes maybe but look at Sony news Nokia... now a shadows of their former selves.

Yes, I noticed the word "probably" - it's on record. But this word does not negate your statement about R&D - which still begs your explanation.

Regarding their supposed losses - it is nothing strange for companies to show losses for years on end. There could be very rational explanations for this - such as acquisitions, expansion, etc. So, where do you get your "may not survive" prediction? Perhaps you can enlighten us on the reasons for their supposed losses!? On what is this based?

[tribusue]

Nobody has metioned Raymrine. I recently upgraded most of my equipment on my boat, so far I am satisfied.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[zboss]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I don't think there is a Garmin equivalent to B&G 4G radar. Garmin HD does not stack up. And I have B&G Zeus 2 and 4G radar on the sailboat, along with Vesper AIS and Icom VHF, each of which I consider best in class. On the fishing boat I have Garmin, and have historically owned Garmin. But very happy with the B&G sail steer and especially radar.

They have new comparable radar called Fantom...

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/555656

[John Holbrook]

Revalations if you don't see losses for three of the last five years for an establish company as an issue that's your prerogative. Do you own home work if you want enlightenment.

FYI 1. Acquisition costs of viable acquisitions are capitalized not expenses.

FYI 2. Not "supposed" losses, actual losses per figures published by Furuno and available on the internet.

Originally Posted by Revelations

Yes, I noticed the word "probably" - it's on record. But this word does not negate your statement about R&D - which still begs your explanation.

Regarding their supposed losses - it is nothing strange for companies to show losses for years on end. There could be very rational explanations for this - such as acquisitions, expansion, etc. So, where do you get your "may not survive" prediction? Perhaps you can enlighten us on the reasons for their supposed losses!? On what is this based?

[svrevelations]

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

Revalations if you don't see losses for three of the last five years for an establish company as an issue that's your prerogative. Do you own home work if you want enlightenment.

FYI 1. Acquisition costs of viable acquisitions are capitalized not expenses.

FYI 2. Not "supposed" losses, actual losses per figures published by Furuno and available on the internet.

It is clear that you have no answers to my questions for you have on two occasions side stepped these questions, it is clear that your kangaroo court statements (R&D and Survive) have no factual basis. It' no use continuing this fact less conversation, it's time to get back to things that really matter - sailing. Cheers.

[John Holbrook]

A boat sits very low in the water, a passerby (who spent 16 years in Asia doing market research for electronics manufacturers) comments on it but doesn't want to spend time investigating to tell you exactly why. So everything with that boat is now hunky dory?

Merry Christmas and enjoy your sailing. Don't forget your life jacket.

Originally Posted by Revelations

It is clear that you have no answers to my questions for you have on two occasions side stepped these questions, it is clear that your kangaroo court statements (R&D and Survive) have no factual basis. It' no use continuing this fact less conversation, it's time to get back to things that really matter - sailing. Cheers.

[Pacey16]

Original post from Revelations:

We currently have a older B&G 2000 Hydra system on our yacht which served us well. It is due for a replacement soon - but this time around, I will be looking at Furuno products. For us, it is far more important that the products we buy today can and will still be supported/replaced/repaired 15 years from now.

When you have a failed or damaged product a few years after buying it and then find out that it is no longer available or supported is no fun. You also want to be sure that there is support for your products where you intent sailing.

I agree, but dont think you will get that from Furuno, I have a 6 year old 511 autopilot that I cant get a replacement controller for.

Anyone know where I can get one I would be very gratefull.

[svHyLyte]

John--

With due respect, considering the true extent of Furuno's business--of which the recreational marine segment is only a part--it would not seem that the Company's prospective longevity is an issue pertinent to the selection of one's electronics. One can find more information on the Company at (click on) Furuno. Note the industries/markets/products the company serves and then ponder whether this is a Company that's demise is on the horizon.

Relative to yachting, note that the Company's products are used extensively, if not nearly exclusively, in the commercial marine industry up to and including the US Coast Guard. While contemplating the replacement of our own equipment over the last 10 months we have sought out and spoken with a great number of professional mariners, from shrimp boat operators, to commercial fishing boat owners/operators, to ferry boat operators, to workboat/harbor service boat operators; and, more than a few Coasties and the opinions have been nearly unanimous in favor of Furuno over competing brands. The next time you are in the vicinity of any of these boats/ships take note of the names on their radio and radomes.

The only drawback I see to Furuno equipment is cost. It is not inexpensive although, in the long run, the service life cycle costs are competitive, if not less. I guess the more salient questions for someone making a gear selection is: whether the prospective continued ownership of a particular boat is long enough; and, whether the assurance of reliability, justifies the added expense.

FWIW...

[jdazey]

While Furuno's commercial level gear is top notch, a few years ago their autopilots had a bad reputation in the AK fishing fleet. Their new pilots may be better. Comnav has the lions share of the autopilot market in that fleet.

My 30+ years experience on commercial fishing boats with Furuno radars, sounders, and satellite compass has been very positive. As I replace the goofy Raymarine stuff on Presto, Furuno is one of the contenders.

Cheers,