Budget Nav Setup?

[falko1]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

Hard to "recommend" without knowing your boat but on a 33' cruising full time always anchoring I'm very happy running a raspberry pi3 with openplotter.
https://openplotter.readthedocs.io/en/3.x.x/

Excellent setup! How did you wire the engine sensors? What make do you use? I've just discovered that my Volvo Penta is too old to support Easy Connect sensors.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by falko1

Excellent setup! How did you wire the engine sensors? What make do you use? I've just discovered that my Volvo Penta is too old to support Easy Connect sensors.

Thermometers are ds18b20, cost little off ebay, they each have an address so just 3 wires into the Pi the parallel them together. Signalk has an app for them. Of course, it does everything.
Barometer is BE280.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Just a thought.

While the Rasberry is surely a good platform and suited, I'm favouring a laptop for it's portability.

Had a number of occasions were this was helpful. I also had a few occasions where people asked me for help on their setup of a fixed computer and it would have been easier if they would just have swung by with their computer.

Older Toughbooks are reasonably cheap, work great for navigation and are very robust, especially when it's a smaller, to some extent "wet" boat.

Both!! And a tablet .
Pi can be tucked away with tidy wiring doing all the work running 24/7. Pi3 doesn't cost much or use much power then beams all the data to any other machine you want.
Plus anchored leaving opencpn running all the time is useful & laptop uses too much power for that.
Very reassuring

Openplotter makes the setup simple.

[berniecurry]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Idle curiosity mainly.<snip>

A valid and understandable reason. I started this circumnavigation on the US east coast travelling westwards (as crew on various boats) so plan to continue westwards.

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

<snip>
Note for OP... if buying an ipad make sure you pay the extra for the the 'wifi and cellular' version. It's the one with the built in GPS.

Another good tip

Thanks to everyone for the wide range of information. The knowledge base here is awesome. GenZers are meant to be the IT generation but you boomers know a thing or two about boat things so thanks for sharing.

I will deal with other questions like autopilots later.

[jalmberg]

I wonder how many Open CPN fans ever leave their dining rooms. It’s hard enough to struggle with a laptop on a moving sailboat, but to add that horrible pice of software to the mix, you would have to be more patient than me. How do you use a laptop in the cockpit to enter a narrow harbor at night? I would love to hear some real life stories. For me, I will stick with my inexpensive Lowrance chartplotter, running Navioncs charts. It’s waterproof, doesn’t overheat in the sun, and does the job properly.

[larrymac]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

We use Open CPN on a refurbished rugged Lenovo 10.5 inch laptop that folds over to be a tablet/monitor in front of the wheel, with a separate bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Our total investment is under USD $170.

Oh. I forgot - a generic GPS "puck" antenna.

“Budget Nav Setup” is to me the same as “Budget Brake shop” for an RV or a “Budget Cancer Doctor”

In all three cases (I have experienced each need, but with high quality pre-preparation) It’s really simple - How important is it to you to be able to find your way, Stop your Truck, or feel confident in the face of cancer?

At the end of the day, going the budget route can work, but when you experience the gut-wrenching NEED, we will be pleased you pre-planned and pre-funded.

[Dan Best]

It can be done very cheaply. My wife and I took our Tayana 37 all the way to Panama using just a couple of handheld GPS's (one for backup), a paper chart set and a stand alone radar. We bought a chart plotter in Panama before going further (and glad we did). Once back in the US, we added AIS and integrated the radar into the chart plotter.

[donradcliffe]

I use Open Captain with NOAA and NZ free charts, plus the old Cmap world chart set. The Cmap folder contains 21,400 charts. They may not be as accurate in areas like Singapore where there has been a lot of dredging and filling, but they are good enough for me.

My delivery backup has been Navionics on an Android, but I am hearing that some stupid MBA at Navionics thinks I am not price sensitive, and they are going for a big price increase.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by larrymac

“Budget Nav Setup” is to me the same as “Budget Brake shop” for an RV or a “Budget Cancer Doctor”

Budget does not mean inadequate. And no matter what your risk tolerance is, safety does require a cost/benefit analysis.
* Your brakes should be good for 20K miles. Do you replace them every 10K to be safe?
* You can get a solid, manufacturer recommended brake job for what, $300? (I've never paid, so don't know). But I'm sure you can have them upgraded to a track-ready system for, what, $5K?
* I can have my life raft repacked on the recommended schedule. Or I can do it annually, because, well, "who knows." Or, given the horror stories on repack failures, it might be prudent to never repack it, just toss it and buy a new one.
* I have one good EPRIB. But it's below, and if the boat goes up in flame and I can barely make it to the life raft, I'm screwed -- so better get another in the raft. Sure, I have a personal one on my vest, but it's not rated for 48 hours of transmission, so it's not sufficient.

* I can buy a solid, reliable chart plotter for under $1K. Or I can put an independent, redundant system at the nav station, and upgrade both to super woosh processors with 18" screens and wifi and 6 flavors of charts, with 2 styles of radar, for $20K plus.
Sure, an old phone with a failing battery, in a non-waterproof case, using the long-outdated free charts circulating around, is probably not what I'd enter a strange port with. But there perfectly sufficient "budget solutions" that don't require an investment larger than the purchase price of the boat.
Sorry, I hate the mentality of "how much is your boat worth" or "it's cheap insurance" or "you get what you pay for" etc to somehow imply that doing a cost/benefit analysis or digging into the "what do you get for your money" is only for fools. I for one can comfortably afford a very nice boat because I've asked those questions and made those decisions on every purchase I've ever made.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by falko1

Actually will be mounted inside at the chart table (work in progress). At the helm I have Axiom+9 and the Raymarine st60 suite of instruments.

That's a plan I could really get behind. My boat came with a full network of Furuno chartplotters, one at the nav station and one at the helm (and ST60 on the bulkhead). It's getting old, but at 14 years it's still a solid system. When it gets replaced, it will be a real chart plotter at the helm (usable in cold, wet, and sun, and rugged enough to grab when falling -- while also not having battery issues and lasting far longer than any phone or tablet I've ever owned), and a tablet type (or pi and screen, or even a laptop) system at the nav station where reduced cost and improved usability don't come at the cost of physical limitations.
I really think for sailboats with open cockpits, this is the perfect mix.
(note, I got my first smart phone in 2015. In the last 8 years, I think I've been through 5 phones and 3 tablets -- makes my chart plotter look invincible!).

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

I wonder how many Open CPN fans ever leave their dining rooms. It’s hard enough to struggle with a laptop on a moving sailboat, but to add that horrible pice of software to the mix, you would have to be more patient than me. How do you use a laptop in the cockpit to enter a narrow harbor at night? I would love to hear some real life stories. For me, I will stick with my inexpensive Lowrance chartplotter, running Navioncs charts. It’s waterproof, doesn’t overheat in the sun, and does the job properly.

You'd be surprised how many OpenCPN equipped yachts there are long distance cruising or even have circumnavigated with OpenCPN as primary navigation software.

Personally I'm using it since about 15 years, and yes also during some extendet cruises. Hasn't failed me yet.

Free and open source does not mean cheap and disfunctional.

Only because you perhaps do not know how to setup and use it because you've grown to love your plotter, doesn't mean it's a bad piece of software.

[GrowleyMonster]

I'll go out on a limb here and presume you mean electronic navigation.

Old laptop running Ubuntu. recent editions of free NOAA charts, USB GPS puck. OpenCPN. Everything free or already got. Outside US waters you may need to buy charts.

Raspberry Pi and a 7" display, to conserve power. Or a big humongous one if you don't care. OpenCPN. NOAA charts. The supply of RPi had dried up and scalpers were getting up to $200 for 4B with 4GB RAM, but now they are more available and you should be able to get one from an official seller for MSRP, which is very, very cheap for a viable desktop replacement. It runs normally Raspberry OS but also runs most flavors of Linux. Runs OpenCPN just fine on any of them. The model 5 is out but the 4B with 1GB RAM is adequate. With 4GB, performance is more in line with what you are probably used to.

Alternately, and admittedly sometimes a bit fiddly to actually use, an Android phone or phablet running OpenCPN and using the devices own internal GPS receiver, and of course with charts onboard.

I would go with a RPi or an old repurposed laptop running Ubuntu, a USB GPS puck, OpenCPN, free NOAA charts, and practice using it. I would have a phone for backup. You don't need a SIM or a carrier account, just a phone that has onboard GPS, and most Androids do.

Between Celestial and Electronic, Celestial is definitely more bulletproof and less prone to issues like lightning strikes, battery failure, system disabling events, and other seldom encountered failures that nevertheless COULD mess you up, sort of like how you COULD win the lottery. Meanwhile Electronic systems are more useful inland where greater accuracy is useful and a horizon is not available and the quickest possible determination of position might be necessary. For a budget celestial setup, the top of the line Davis plastic sextant (mk25?) will work, downloaded and printed almanac pages, downloaded and printed tables, and as a backup, the same budget computer options with sight reduction software or digital almanac and calculating by spherical trig formulas, or even a smartphone ditto ditto. Like Electronic systems, you can pay a lot more and get a lot more. If you venture far offshore, both is defintely best. If you sail mostly inland and inshore, use Electronic but practice Celestial when you can. It is fun, and rather salty, and could come in handy some day if you start crossing oceans.

Oh, I forgot about the Bris DIY "sextant". Perfect for the primitive sailor within. Now THERE is a budget sextant. Sort of. LOL!

[CyKlop]

Be careful about the difference between "coverage" and "accuracy". For instance, Navionics (as noted earlier) offers a huge range of coverage. However, that can be a bit misleading as many areas that it covers are pretty inaccurate if you're trying to use it for close-in, detailed, navigation around shallows and hidden rocks.

That's not limited to just Navionics, of course, as that sort of problem plagues every chart from every manufacturer - they are only as good as their data supply. I mention this caveat because it is sometimes safer to go in "ignorant" and therefore supremely cautious than it is to go in confidently relying on possibly inaccurate electronic (or paper) charts.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by larrymac

“Budget Nav Setup” is to me the same as “Budget Brake shop” for an RV or a “Budget Cancer Doctor”

In all three cases (I have experienced each need, but with high quality pre-preparation) It’s really simple - How important is it to you to be able to find your way, Stop your Truck, or feel confident in the face of cancer?

At the end of the day, going the budget route can work, but when you experience the gut-wrenching NEED, we will be pleased you pre-planned and pre-funded.

I hate to break the news to you, but there are NO reliable nav systems available, regardless of expense. I deliver boats, and on over half my deliveries the nav instruments suffer failures at some point. I just finished a SFO to Seattle run two days ago. The wind angle died on the way out the gate and the heading compass was pretty near useless. On the last two trips back from Hawaii this summer, the first boat lost EVERYTHING, including the GPS. On the second I lost lighting control, then the MFD froze when I tried to cycle the instrument power.

Frankly, I don't NEED any instruments to get a boat home, but I will take an EPIRB. This week the CG was constantly making broadcasts about an overdue fishing boat out of Grays Harbor. They gave up, but another fishing boat found one of the two crew in a liferaft today after the CG suspended its search. If they had had a functional EPIRB, both crew would have likely been picked up within hours.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

I'll go out on a limb here and presume you mean electronic navigation.

Old laptop running Ubuntu. recent editions of free NOAA charts, USB GPS puck. OpenCPN. Everything free or already got. Outside US waters you may need to buy charts.

Snip

Between Celestial and Electronic, Celestial is definitely more bulletproof and less prone to issues like lightning strikes, battery failure, system disabling events, and other seldom encountered failures that nevertheless COULD mess you up, sort of like how you COULD win the lottery. Meanwhile Electronic systems are more useful inland where greater accuracy is useful and a horizon is not available and the quickest possible determination of position might be necessary. For a budget celestial setup, the top of the line Davis plastic sextant (mk25?) will work, downloaded and printed almanac pages, downloaded and printed tables, and as a backup, the same budget computer options with sight reduction software or digital almanac and calculating by spherical trig formulas, or even a smartphone ditto ditto.
snip dos

I think nav systems rather than instrumentation was - as you suggest - the OPs intent.

West about from Australia be would be 99% outside US waters so free NOAA charts not an option.

Did someone mention celestial?

https://www.docdroid.net/5rFQH7g/off...navigation-pdf

Written by a simple sailor for simple sailors this was first published in the 1990's in the Australian 'Cruising Helmsman' magazine as part of an AYF recognised course.
The magazine only had 'first publication rights' so don't fret about any copyright issues.