Can ham and marine SSB play together?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GILow

So, at the risk of being a PITA, how do you think the TOTAL cost of that setup would look by the time it is ready to go? Would it be comparable with a used 802, or a different ball park?

Rather a lot of imponderables in there..... how much do S/H 802's bring in Canada? S/H tuners?? Dunno...

What I do know is that I simply answered the OP's question.

What I also know is that a new 718 can be had for $US619 in the US Icom IC-718, Icom 718 Amateur Transceiver ( mine cost about $A500 second hand in Oz some years ago) .

What many people would do ( not me... I'm law abiding ) is open up the 718 and not bother buying a second hand 710 for about $500.

Tuners new?An SGC 230 is $595 list SGC World

An Icom 140? $479 from West Marine https://www.westmarine.com/buy/icom-...-m802--3694973

Sooooo.... new 718 and new SGC230.... $1210ish

Second hand 402 and AT-140.... $479 plus ???? ... you would need the 802 to come in at under $700

What many would do is go 718 and 140.... $US1100ish new... and not bother with the marine HF... see above....

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Rather a lot of imponderables in there..... how much do S/H 802's bring in Canada? S/H tuners?? Dunno...

What I do know is that I simply answered the OP's question.

What I also know is that a new 718 can be had for $US619 in the US Icom IC-718, Icom 718 Amateur Transceiver ( mine cost about $A500 second hand in Oz some years ago) .

What many people would do ( not me... I'm law abiding ) is open up the 718 and not bother buying a second hand 710 for about $500.

Tuners new?An SGC 230 is $595 list SGC World

An Icom 140? $479 from West Marine https://www.westmarine.com/buy/icom-...-m802--3694973

Sooooo.... new 718 and new SGC230.... $1210ish

Second hand 402 and AT-140.... $479 plus ???? ... you would need the 802 to come in at under $700

What many would do is go 718 and 140.... $US1100ish new... and not bother with the marine HF... see above....

Fair enough, quite different ball parks then.

My retrospective feeling following my recent HF journey is that I will probably never use the marine frequencies on our radio, unless it is an emergency. (In this regard I am a bit enamored of the red DSC emergency button on the 802, though I accept that it may be a false sense of security.)

And I was of the belief (I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong), that ANY transmitter is fair go in a emergency, so a hacked 718 might kind of be legitimate in this context?

Many ways to skin this cat. My particular cat de-epidermis journey was sent down the 802 path because of a wonderful CF member offering to sell me their rig, if that had not happened I think I would have been very tempted by your suggested HAM soup recipe.

Matt

[fabricator-ken]

Icom 802 does a better job on ham frequencies than most dedicated hams. Comes with a separate head so you can mount it anywhere. I've had mine in the cockpit for 15 years. The face needs a uv protective cover to protect the screen.
Pactor modem via Blue tooth works great.

[Pizzazz]

It is a question of cost vs. utility. An 802+Bluetooth Pactor is pushing $3,500. Add some money for installation and a tuner and you are at $5K. Compare this to $600 for a used Iridium. It leaves you with 4,600 minutes which will last you for many years plus you do not need to go through the hassle of waiting on busy servers, etc.

SSB is great, as a hobby. If you can get a cheaper second hand rig it makes sense. But to spend $5,000 in 2017 would be suboptimal for most people unless you really like to chew to rug on marine nets (priceless).

[GILow]

Why did you compare a used iridium to a new 802?

[Pizzazz]

My bad, you can also get an Iridium Go for $800. Not a big difference. Iridium phones are everywhere, can be rented, purchased second hand, etc. Second hand 802s and Pactor do not get discounted much. I am not advocating one or the other. I have a full SSB setup and I am happy with it. Most people, however, do not have the patience or need to use SSB to justify the full cost including proper installation. So they spend the money and then rip it out after a few years. Just giving a perspective based on what is happening around me.

[foojin]

Originally Posted by GILow

It's not a stupid question, but I am still scratching my head a bit about the order of things here.

I read this as you currently have no radio?

And you want HAM now and MIGHT want Marine HF later?

I was simply asking a question about the sort of set up I could have to allow for the swapping of radios without having to reinvest in a lot of peripheral equipment.

I didn't mean to get in the middle of the argument about the best HF radio or step on the toes of people who love their M802s.

It's difficult enough with my wife who thinks I'm crazy to consider HF radio. We made out OK with an Iridium phone and the technology is only getting better. She figures HF is a waste of money, time and space.

I'm just looking at options.

[foojin]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

What many would do is go 718 and 140.... $US1100ish new... and not bother with the marine HF... see above....

I have heard this a few times, in a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" sort of way, as if millions are doing it but best not to speak about it.

One thread, if I understood correctly, discussed a bit of kit which enhanced the transmissions of a ham radio so it was indistinguishable from a marine SSB.

[GILow]

I don't think it is a case of stepping on toes. I think it is more a question of a chance to keep it simple from the start. But as already mentioned, I like that sort of thing.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by foojin

I have heard this a few times, in a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" sort of way, as if millions are doing it but best not to speak about it.

One thread, if I understood correctly, discussed a bit of kit which enhanced the transmissions of a ham radio so it was indistinguishable from a marine SSB.

The ham radios don't have as good a frequency stability as the marine SSB's, and the transmit frequency will change with temperature. You can put in a Icom CR 338 crystal into the icom radios which keeps the crystal at the same temperature, but it does draw power with the unit off.

A cheaper solution is to listen before you you transmit, and adjust your transmit frequency to the correct value. With voice, adjust the frequency for minimum distortion of the other station.

I also check frequency accuracy by listening to WWV and flipping between lower and upper sideband. Tune the radio so that the tone is the same on each sideband, and the difference between the indicated frequency and 5 or 10 or 15 mhz is the error in your radio. Once the radio warms up, that error will not drift much, so you can compensate for it on other frequencies.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by foojin

...........

It's difficult enough with my wife who thinks I'm crazy to consider HF radio. We made out OK with an Iridium phone and the technology is only getting better. She figures HF is a waste of money, time and space.

I'm just looking at options.

Just wait until she discovers that she can swap scone recipes with other ladies on the cruising nets..

and also.... lots of people just want the marine bands to get on nets... lots of them use 'opened up' ham radios.

[foojin]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Just wait until she discovers that she can swap scone recipes with other ladies on the cruising nets..

That could be. She loves to bake.

When we first got an AIS, in some crowded seas she spent a lot her time talking to the crews of ships, treating them like family.

Shows you what I know. Is there anything other than marine nets where marine SSBs might have an advantage?

[Cheechako]

I'm still not entirely sure what you mean by "introducing a Marine SSB into a ham setup". You don't run one radio thru the other.... which you probably know. Maybe you mean "can I use the Tuner for both radios". Yes you can. (not at once) Some Ham radios are programmable in duplex mode like a marine SSB. (send on one freq and receive on another) Kenwood 450TS.
With the noise on transmission of both no one is ever going to figure out which you are transmitting on which. Hell they can barely hear you at all, and basically, the govt doesn't support Marine SSB anyway. It's Barney Rubble gear to them.

[foojin]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I'm still not entirely sure what you mean by "introducing a Marine SSB into a ham setup". You don't run one radio thru the other.... which you probably know. Maybe you mean "can I use the Tuner for both radios". Yes you can. (not at once) Some Ham radios are programmable in duplex mode like a marine SSB. (send on one freq and receive on another) Kenwood 450TS

Perhaps I used inaccurate terminology. I just wanted to know if there was a radio/antenna/tuner/modem setup in which I could easily switch radios if I wished. I thought I would like to set up something where the radio was interchangeable given current technology.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by foojin

I was simply asking a question about the sort of set up I could have to allow for the swapping of radios without having to reinvest in a lot of peripheral equipment.

I didn't mean to get in the middle of the argument about the best HF radio or step on the toes of people who love their M802s.

It's difficult enough with my wife who thinks I'm crazy to consider HF radio. We made out OK with an Iridium phone and the technology is only getting better. She figures HF is a waste of money, time and space.

I'm just looking at options.

OK, SWAP. Now we understand.

If that's what you really want to do, then I wouldn't put too fine a point on it. The big issues with installation are (1) antenna; (2) ground plane; and (3) power supply. Maybe (4) control cable for tuner. Chopping off and recrimping some connectors is not going to be the decisive issue. The big things can be easily reused on a new installation, of more or less any type.

So if that's what you really want to do -- go for it. Don't worry about the tuner -- just use a different one, suited to the new radio.


HF radio takes some brains and some thought to use, unlike a sat phone. As a reward, HF radio does a few things which sat phones don't, and is part of a rather more robust comms system, which we can rely on to work even after a nuclear holocaust (God forbid). The downside is that besides brains and thought, HF radio demands some time, something which is in precious short supply on most cruising boats. And if you're going to play with ham radio -- that's a black hole of time, something better suited to bored suburbanites than to busy cruisers, who always have something to fix or plot or plan. But great good fun if you can wrench yourself away from changing anodes or whatever it is you need to be doing today.