Class B AIS waste of money

[chuckr]

We have beeping of our AIS turned off but have it set so anything within 2nm flashes on the screen - but one of us is always on watch and know what is flashing and what is not and what is close and what is not - in a harbor we just do not pay attention to the flashing screen as we are much to busy watching with our eyes and the plotter and depth to worry about a boat as both of us are watching - if it does appear a big ship is moving and sometimes coming off a dock you can not always tell we will pinpoint it and find out if it is moving and then use our eyes to watch if it is and adjust accordingly --

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

In waters crowded with pleasure boats using class B AIS, one can hardly blame the ship for turning off the B alarms. I usually do that myself when in such places!

But so far I've not seen that ships have filtered me out at sea. I've spoken to a couple who were not altering course at great distance, just to be sure. They have all said that they were tracking us and would alter course as required. There may not be 100% compliance with allowing class B alarms at sea, but then there isn't 100% compliance with the requirement for competent watchkeepers on the bridge (as Jessica Watson found out).

Waste of money? Ridiculous, IMO.

Jim

They were tracking you visually and on their X Band 3cm radar. Which can paint very small objects with or without AIS at longer range than you can see them. Their radar scanners are often hundreds of feet above the water.

Mark Fay MMC Jr. Engineer QMED AS-E / MSC ET

[SV Enough]

"A mate of mine is the navigator on a container ship. I asked him if they have a nickname for us yachties. 'Yep' he says, 'WAFI - as in Wind Assisted Farking Idiots.'" Quote from the Internet.

And that is the crux of the issue. WAFIs buy these class B TRANSPONDERS with all sorts of big seafaring ideas and good intentions, then find out there is care and upkeep involved and just leave them like a discarded child's toy for other people to trip over.

Like the the man said it's the "law of tonnage." You need to stay out of their way by knowing where that are, not the other way round. And in so far as AIS is involved, for that all you need is the RECEIVER. As another poster pointed out the MK 1 eyeball and generally paying attention are your first responsibilities, along with knowing what you are doing.

I have a class A RECEIVER on S/V Enough as I don't want a Kobayashi Maru incident any more than any of you. It helps me know were they are so I can avoid them. It works just like the transponder except it doesn't clutter up anyone's radar screen except for the echo from my radar reflector.

Mark Fay,
Merchant Marine Credential Jr. Engineer, QMED, AS-E / MSC ET

[Polux]

Originally Posted by newhaul

In some parts of the world they are actually required on foreign pleasure craft.

Where? You mean the nationals don't have to run AIS and the foreigners have? Or I am misunderstanding you?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Polux

Where? You mean the nationals don't have to run AIS and the foreigners have? Or I am misunderstanding you?

Phuket. Though that sounds like it might change to locals as well.

As well as demanding that foreign boats are fitted with AIS, the Phuket marine authorities are also looking to have all Thai boats, including the fishing fleet and all transport boats that carry 25 or more passengers, fitted too.

Thailand: AIS transponders mandatory on all foreign craft in Phuket waters, effective October 1 —

[Polux]

That is plain crazy LOL. Their own fishing boats don't have AIS and foreign yachts are obliged to have? It seems they are not enforcing the measure but it is ridiculous anyway.

In Europe (EC) they have made it mandatory for fishing boats of a given size (15m and over) but till know I heard nothing about making it mandatory to Yachts in a near future.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

I'm hoping to prompt some discussion on what a total waste of money purchasing and installing a class B transponder on your please craft is.

If your objective is is "be seen by commercial traffic", forget it! I personally have been summoned to the bridge to SPECIFICALLY check Furuno/ECDIS radar settings and ensure that "except class B" is ON, meaning exclude them. For proof see

Class B AIS - Filtering Of Targets By Ships – gCaptain

Mark Fay,
Merchant Marine Credential Jr. Engineer, QMED, AS-E / MSC ET

So are unlit flares, then.

Should anyone in a ship WISH to see you at a distance, they can switch it on. I wouldn't expect a ship to want to deal with the plate of spaghetti that would be a commercial port in which various yachtie idiots had left their transponders running at dock. I would hope that turning it on while on passage might be of help.

Except in the Red Sea or Strait of Malacca, of course.

[Gaia]

Class B AIS a waste of money? One of the more ridiculous things I have seen on CF. I rate it along GPS and radar in value for money. I was told AIS is now mandatory on fishing boats here in South Africa. It reduces risk and is a great eyeball aid in daytime as well as night. Out of hundreds of ships encountered during the last few years passage making in the Indian Ocean we've seen only a couple of large ships not using it. Soon I believe all fishing boats will be required to carry the technology driven by the need for safety and security. Thailand and Singapore require it on yachts already and that requirement will certainly spread. A waste of money? Tongue in cheek I assume.

Jim

[jrbogie]

ais. waaaaaaaaay down my list of things to buy.

[rwidman]

So AIS for a recreational boat is a waste of money?

For some of us, perhaps. For others, it's a pretty important piece of safety equipment. Do the big ships turn class B off? Possibly. I can't imagine going into a crowded harbor with a couple hundred recreational boats running back and forth. If they can't turn the 30' boats off, the whole system is pretty useless.

As a few others have posted, AIS allows you to know where they are. Stay out of their way and you'll be fine.

[BenFranklyn]

I have been using AIS Class B through out the Baltic, North Sea and English Channel for 3 years and would never have a boat without one. In the Channel its very useful in timing your passage across the busy shipping lanes where ships may potentially be in conflict with you and not be within visual range. the biggest problem I have had is with the various fishing fleets who turn off there AIS and then always seem to steer into your path no matter which way you turn. If another ship decides to turn there system off thats there concern. My job is to get as much information as possible and AIS gives me much more than Radar can. On a dark night in bad weather I have everything on and every eye peeled for problems.

[Rick Nordby]

I have a good friend who is a Merchant Mariner Officer. Whenwe were contemplating AIS for our boat he advised us to get AIS A&B. He said he and his fellow officers love to see us on AIS. That was good enough for me. Also we found when buddy boating from the PNW to Mexico and buddy boating while there that having our buddy boat sending out an AIS signal was very helpful. We always knew where they were day and night. We really missed it with friends who didn't broadcast B.

[jhulmer]

I don't count on them seeing me or my AIS. I have AIS and radar to make sure that during my little catnap or potty break offshore that I get warning of traffic.

We had a power boat bearing down on us in Maine fog one time and we saw them on AIS and radar, but they never saw us until we called them five times.

got to stay on your toes! "Never Trust Nobody"

[Gaia]

I can understand not having AIS high on the list of things to buy if one is mainly a daytime sailor and not making or contemplating long passages but for passage making it is absolutely invaluable. We sometimes get warnings an hour or a few times an hour and a half before a CPA!

And there are other advantages : recently while sailing from Cape Agulhas to the Cape of Good Hope off of South Africa, I knew we would have to gybe at some point and since we were close to the busy shipping lanes I chose the time to do so by taking, amongst other considerations, the traffic around me in mind as seen on the AIS. The AIS also gave me an indication of how far we were away from those shipping lanes.

The AIS also told me which boats were at anchor and which were moving including one inside the busy Cape Town harbour which had just left its berth.

And receive only? WHY? To save a few dollars? I love knowing I have beeped a possibly sleepy guy on a faraway bridge who has perhaps not seen another ship for hours. In our experience they mostly reply now when called by name and often initiate a friendly chat. How nice that is whether it is boringly calm or blowing 40 kts on a dark as ink night or in fog!

Several years ago while in Cochin we met a cruising sailor who had collided with a container ship off of Sri Lanka possibly while his pick up crew was asleep. No lives were lost but he did get dismasted and lost his railings and stanchions A beep of the AIS would have saved him a more than a year's grief and frustration and oodles of money getting back underway from Cochin. Bet it went up his list of things to buy! Right to the top after the new mast I'd say.

And another major advantage of AIS: Anchor watch! Our Vesper unit has a great anchorwatch feature. During an up to forty knot blow recently in a crowded anchorage in Mossel Baai it told us we did not move more than a meter and would have warned us if we had. .

Jim

[01kiwijohn]

Gosh, can't say that. On two trips across the Nth Pacific I've had conversations with ships that saw me.