Confused. Should I buy a Raymarine E7 chart plotter? or just stick with a IPAD??

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

It's a power hog, uses assisted gps, unreadable outside and will pop up notifications

Sorry, I like a lot of your posts, and I notice your flip book channel with lots of links, but you're wrong on some of your statements here.

I've used an iPad2 for four years now as my only chartplotter, while I did my refit, saving electronics for last. And I've sailed a lot here in the Pacific Northwest, and in quite a few crew position deliveries. I've actually pointed out marine chartplotter mistakes to captains during trips, because navionics on my phone was more accurate than what they had planned. Granted, it may be the user, BUT, I was able to pick up on it with a device I pulled from my pocket on a wet tossing foredeck. No use for one? Toy? I'd like more toys like that.

It's been my experience that the iPad sips electricity, it remains plugged into a "waterproof" USB charging port and a lifeproof case when in use as a chartplotter in the cockpit. I've mounted it under an overhang on my pilot house, and have only occasionally had to shield it with my hand and bend over to see it. I don't consider it all that inconvenient really.Leaving it plugged in prevents the iPad from going into sleep mode when running navionics.

There are no pop up notifications except for a small banner on top when connected to wifi. Totally unobtrusive. As a side note, why the worrying about a hotspot? I do use the iPad/phone combo hotspot thing a lot. Navionics doesn't need to be connected though, unless you need new maps, and that's just be poor planning on your part at that point.

That being said, I agree with the premise that a proprietary system that you have to pay out the ass continually for is needed in voyaging craft.

Could an iPad work? Well, it has for me, pretty well actually.

My concern is that an accurate assessment is not being presented when false statements are made.
My thoughts were that you're shown me that you're better than that.

Not meant to offend or insult, just pointing out a view from this side of the screen......

It's not an assisted GPS on mine, it's a gps.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Sorry, I like a lot of your posts, and I notice your flip book channel with lots of links, but you're wrong on some of your statements here.

I've used an iPad2 for four years now as my only chartplotter, while I did my refit, saving electronics for last. And I've sailed a lot here in the Pacific Northwest, and in quite a few crew position deliveries. I've actually pointed out marine chartplotter mistakes to captains during trips, because navionics on my phone was more accurate than what they had planned. Granted, it may be the user, BUT, I was able to pick up on it with a device I pulled from my pocket on a wet tossing foredeck. No use for one? Toy? I'd like more toys like that.

It's been my experience that the iPad sips electricity, it remains plugged into a "waterproof" USB charging port and a lifeproof case when in use as a chartplotter in the cockpit. I've mounted it under an overhang on my pilot house, and have only occasionally had to shield it with my hand and bend over to see it. I don't consider it all that inconvenient really.Leaving it plugged in prevents the iPad from going into sleep mode when running navionics.

There are no pop up notifications except for a small banner on top when connected to wifi. Totally unobtrusive. As a side note, why the worrying about a hotspot? I do use the iPad/phone combo hotspot thing a lot. Navionics doesn't need to be connected though, unless you need new maps, and that's just be poor planning on your part at that point.

That being said, I agree with the premise that a proprietary system that you have to pay out the ass continually for is needed in voyaging craft.

Could an iPad work? Well, it has for me, pretty well actually.

My concern is that an accurate assessment is not being presented when false statements are made.
My thoughts were that you're shown me that you're better than that.

Not meant to offend or insult, just pointing out a view from this side of the screen......

It's not an assisted GPS on mine, it's a gps.

Your post sounds like someone trying convince people you have seen a UFO. well, OK. I believe you believe what you have posted

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

The ipad is a very poor chart plotter. It's a power hog, uses assisted gps, unreadable outside and will pop up notifications at the most inconvenient times.

We used ours as we were prepping for a full instrumentaion upgrade. Which we are now half way through.

I'll be glad to see the back of the ipad as our primary chart tool. It works great downstairs as a means to check wind, weather, radar and ais through interfacing with our Zeus2.

All are just aids to navigation.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

The only bit I disagree with you over is that you seem to be implying that 'assisted GPS' is a negative thing. I don't agree with that conclusion. By 'assisted' Apple is referring to the fact that they use cellular to quickly pick up your location. And as anyone knows using the maps it picks up pretty much instantly because of the 'assisted'. But you can turn the cellular off and it will still work. A bit slower, as it picks up the satellites, but it still is 'real' GPS.

I don't believe an iPad will ever fully replace a chart plotter fir the reasons you and others have stated. BUT, I do see a near future when chart plotters will take on more and more of some of the iPad features and 'assisted' Gps might be one of them. In fact with Raymarine we are already seeing some of this happening with Apps and wifi.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Your post sounds like someone trying convince people you have seen a UFO. well, OK. I believe you believe what you have posted

I care about as much of what you believe in this matter, as I do in a lot of your other asinine, shoot from the hip quips.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

I care about as much of what you believe in this matter, as I do in a lot of your other asinine, shoot from the hip quips.

if you can only respond by being offensive and rude, you really shouldn't be posting at all.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

I've actually pointed out marine chartplotter mistakes to captains during trips, because navionics on my phone was more accurate than what they had planned. Granted, it may be the user, BUT, I was able to pick up on it with a device I pulled from my pocket on a wet tossing foredeck. No use for one? Toy? I'd like more toys like that.

So do share, what mistakes were there on the chartplotter ?

I don't think anyone has said that there is no use for an iPad/iPhone onboard. They are great for someone who uses paper and an analog GPS display, they are great for someone who has their MFD only at the nav station, they are great for a delivery skipper or a crew member. However if you are looking for a primary navigation display in the cockpit that needs to be visible and usable in all conditions working 24/7 during a voyage then a fully integrated MFD is the only reliable way to go. Anything else you are fooling yourself.

[Hobie_ind]

I'll stay out of the Raymarine E7 vs Garmin vs B&G, etc, etc, debate as I've got an older Raymarine C80 and am not up-to-date on the pros and cons of the E7 vs other 'dedicated' chartplotters as I'll call them.

As with a lot of these topics, I'd say it largely depends on where you're cruising. If you're cruising locally, largely in familiar waters, in generally benign weather, the iPad will probably serve you well. Once you get further afield, and for longer, I FIRMLY recommend a dedicated chartplotter for a number of reasons.

I do use an iPad with iNavX and Garmin Blue Charts loaded on it extensively. I do most of my planning and general navigation on it, BUT I have come to a point where I do not rely on it......when it's critical, I rely on the chartplotter. I also have an Acer laptop with OpenCPN that I use with Google Earth overlays quite a bit.....but it's also a backup to the Chartplotter.

We've been cruising full time for 2-1/2 years in the Caribbean, Central America and South Pacific, and I've found that keeping the iPad IOS and all of it's Apps up to date very difficult with the limited bandwidth we typically have. By the time we got to NZ last year, iNavX was almost unusable until it could be reloaded and updated. I suspect this isn't a problem if you stay in North America or Europe where smoking fast internet is the norm.....but once you get further off the beaten trail, the huge size of Apple's updates becomes problematic. The second problem I've had is direct sunlight on the iPad. Reading it is Ok, the problem is overheating. Even under the bimini, I've had numerous occasions where you don't notice the sun is peeking through directly onto the iPad and it overheats to the point of shutting down. It then takes about 10 minutes down below in the shade before it's cooled enough to start up again. It just happened to me two days ago here in Fiji and I've had it happen in quite cool conditions in the PNW on a sunny day. Finally, I've had a couple of occasions with really spotty cell coverage and the iPad navigations app's refresh rate slowed to a point where it was dangerously behind the boat. When I disabled Cellular Data it went back to normal which led me to believe that the iPad was preferentially focusing on the intermittent cell service to keep email, Facebook, etc, etc, etc up-to-date and the navigation app was a secondary priority.

I also love my Acer laptop with OpenCPN, but it's not really weatherproof and has lost connection to the Bluetooth GPS enough times that I don't rely on it.

None of these problems has ever been an issue on our old, outdated, pain-in-the-ass to program Raymarine C80. It just reliably plots our position, complete with radar overlay, whenever I ask it to. I use the radar overlay a lot coming into new areas as it can be a great quick check on the accuracy of the charts as you approach. If I'm following a previously laid track out through a reef pass in poor light conditions or at night, I'm relying on the chartplotter.....not the iPad or the laptop, they've simply crashed or froze on me too many times. They're there, but as backups and for additional information.

I've considered what I would do to replace the Raymarine chartplotter when the time comes, and I have come to the conclusion that currently there's only two paths I would evaluate:
- Replace it with a new Raymarine (easiest to integrate with my existing autopilot and my B&G wind instruments) chartplotter and radar.
- Replace it with a dedicated computer located in a locker with an industrial grade weatherproof monitor (touchscreen????) in the cockpit, a second monitor at the chart table, integrated with radar and running OpenCPN, with a wired-in GPS. I know a few boats that have done this reliably, but it certainly isn't plug-and-play. I also really don't think it would be substantially cheaper than the first option, but it's a more flexible, open system which has some appeal as I am tired of the proprietary network crap with Raymarine, B&G and Garmin.

Again, the iPad would be there for planning, weather, routing, etc........but only as a backup to the chartplotter underway.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I don't think anyone has said that there is no use for an iPad/iPhone onboard. They are great for someone who uses paper and an analog GPS display, they are great for someone who has their MFD only at the nav station, they are great for a delivery skipper or a crew member. However if you are looking for a primary navigation display in the cockpit that needs to be visible and usable in all conditions working 24/7 during a voyage then a fully integrated MFD is the only reliable way to go. Anything else you are fooling yourself.

Hoppy,

Busy here "fooling" myself for the seventh year in a row whilst navigating around the world using only our ipads and iphones.

We had an excellent passage from Sardinia over to Ponza on Friday, spent approximately 2 minutes behind the helm leaving the fuel dock in Portisco, then maybe four minutes while anchoring in Ponza, otherwise zero time behind the helm... It's a good thing we didn't waste money placing an expensive chartplotter in that position. Put the money instead into a new KPM macerating super industrial predator bilge pump and new main sail.

The new Vesper Watchmate Vision AIS transponder with internal wifi functioned flawlessly and integrated seamlessly with our INavx apps on the ipads and Iphone 6. We were very comfortable under the bimini (unlike ramblinrod who navigates out in the sun ) and were surprised by the battery life on the new Ipad air 2. We got 12 hours before it required a recharge and switch over to the ipad air. We never even needed the ipad 1 which was also ready for use in its waterproof/shockproof case. I used the iphone for a different AIS target display. For the first time, we didn't even bother to turn on the PC and run Nobeltec Odyssey. But still use it for planning.

Hey, where will you be in four weeks time? I'd like to see if we can meet up on our way coming or going from Montenegro. I'd like to see your new drone.

Ken

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Your post sounds like someone trying convince people you have seen a UFO. well, OK. I believe you believe what you have posted

Well... I guess I've been seeing the same UFO over the past six years as we navigate to parts unknown. Three Ipads in use along with an iphone 6, Lifeproof nuud waterproof cases, ipads plugged in during use, built in GPS, onboard wifi via the Vesper Vision, no glare issues.

Why do we have three iPads? Because we keep the old ones which are still working fine when we upgrade. One would be fine.

The only reason an ipad user would be using "assisted gps" is if they purchased the wrong model ipad. All cellular models come with a built in gps antenna.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Hobie_ind

We've been cruising full time for 2-1/2 years in the Caribbean, Central America and South Pacific, and I've found that keeping the iPad IOS and all of it's Apps up to date very difficult with the limited bandwidth we typically have. By the time we got to NZ last year, iNavX was almost unusable until it could be reloaded and updated. I suspect this isn't a problem if you stay in North America or Europe where smoking fast internet is the norm.....but once you get further off the beaten trail, the huge size of Apple's updates becomes problematic. The second problem I've had is direct sunlight on the iPad. Reading it is Ok, the problem is overheating. Even under the bimini, I've had numerous occasions where you don't notice the sun is peeking through directly onto the iPad and it overheats to the point of shutting down. It then takes about 10 minutes down below in the shade before it's cooled enough to start up again. It just happened to me two days ago here in Fiji and I've had it happen in quite cool conditions in the PNW on a sunny day. Finally, I've had a couple of occasions with really spotty cell coverage and the iPad navigations app's refresh rate slowed to a point where it was dangerously behind the boat. When I disabled Cellular Data it went back to normal which led me to believe that the iPad was preferentially focusing on the intermittent cell service to keep email, Facebook, etc, etc, etc up-to-date and the navigation app was a secondary priority.

I also love my Acer laptop with OpenCPN, but it's not really weatherproof and has lost connection to the Bluetooth GPS enough times that I don't rely on it.

None of these problems has ever been an issue on our old, outdated, pain-in-the-ass to program Raymarine C80. It just reliably plots our position, complete with radar overlay, whenever I ask it to. I use the radar overlay a lot coming into new areas as it can be a great quick check on the accuracy of the charts as you approach. If I'm following a previously laid track out through a reef pass in poor light conditions or at night, I'm relying on the chartplotter.....not the iPad or the laptop, they've simply crashed or froze on me too many times. They're there, but as backups and for additional information.

Again, the iPad would be there for planning, weather, routing, etc........but only as a backup to the chartplotter underway.

Not sure what you ipad issue is. Our ipad 1 hasn't been backed up in years, because no update is available. It still functions fine with INavx.

[Sandero]

Chart plotting has migrating for many to mobile devices which are touch screen. I see a few issues.

They are not designed for the corrosive marine environment.
They are designed to be hand held not fixed mount... although I suppose there are now mounts for mobile devices on boats.

My own use of the chart plotter is pretty basic. I do not bother with routes nor maintain way point libraries. I don't interface a GPS (plotter) to the AP.

I have perhaps 8 of more GPS enabled devices on board. I do set a waypoint and get heading info and use that to set the AP heading. The set waypoint data is displayed on cockpit repeaters... and I don't visit the below decks plotter to "check my progress". I have added a stand alone self contained B&G T7 GPS plotter which is portable and mounts into a very very rarely used under the dodger port side winch! I can program the same waypoint or not and just use it to have chart type data availble in the cockpit close to the AP controls. This mounting worls fine and gives me a chart view where I am most when I sail.... out of the sun and close to the "controls" and the data I need. This woiks for me and I don't envision the benefits of using a mobil device the way I feel comfortable sailing.

I do not have AIS, DSC or radar on the T7... that is for a future upgrade. But the below decks plotter is viewable from the companionway... just not controllable from there. The handheld VHF gives me AIS so that's good. I find things like Navionics on android more a toy than a useful tool... I nerver use it.

[stnick]

I just returned from a cruise to key west from clearwater fl
My Garman 7 inch touch screen worked great with my I pad. Wifi and all. i could chart a course send it wifi to the chart plotter and if i liked the course my navigator sent i would accept than if all was smooth engage the auto pilot and just watch.
Like any chart plotter you do have to update every once in a while like any computer. You can get garman map cards at any west marine foar any area you cruise in . Every thing is nema so it all talks to each other. !

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Well... I guess I've been seeing the same UFO over the past six years as we navigate to parts unknown. Three Ipads in use along with an iphone 6, Lifeproof nuud waterproof cases, ipads plugged in during use, built in GPS, onboard wifi via the Vesper Vision, no glare issues.

Why do we have three iPads? Because we keep the old ones which are still working fine when we upgrade. One would be fine.

The only reason an ipad user would be using "assisted gps" is if they purchased the wrong model ipad. All cellular models come with a built in gps antenna.

Kenomac, My comment about UFO was not directed at yourself nor the argument, but the way the argument was being put forward by the one poster.

All modern ipad's use 'assisted gps'.. This is a good thing. It's a positive modern development. YES, they have a built in GPS antenna. Not disputing that. But the reason they can so quickly come up with a location is because unlike dedicated gps ariel's used in MFD's and radio's, they also (in addition) have cellular assistance. Which then speeds things up. Again, this is a good thing. It's not an indication of having an 'old' ipad.

[Stu Jackson]

Ach, the never ending story goes on and on....

Sorry, folks, I still have my rotary dial cell phone and my mini-mini-mini-mini Garmin GPSMap 76Cx mini-mini-mini-mini chartplotter.

Still get home with the cans & strings routine.

One of these days my 27 year old son will drag me kicking and screaming into the 20th century. 21st, too, I'd bet.

Look, there is no BEST in boating.

It's simple:

Your boat, your choice.

Please help me understand why anyone would keep saying MY way or the HIGHway, over and over again.

Oh, don't bother, it's all been said already, in this and thousands of other iP vs CP threads.

So, instead of telling me the obvious, I'll just keep reading and I promise: NO more complaining.

Have at it, me hearties.

[Hobie_ind]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Not sure what you ipad issue is. Our ipad 1 hasn't been backed up in years, because no update is available. It still functions fine with INavx.

My thought would be because they're 'consumer grade electronics' being used in a marine environment. Glad yours work well for you, and hope they continue to.

While you've had good luck with your iPads, I've had enough experiences (as summarized above) with 2 iPads that lead me to not trust them, therefore I cannot in good conscience recommend to others that they should rely on them in lieu of a dedicated chartplotter. I've outlined why so others can have the info to make their own decisions, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.