Constant Power to Stereo

[Lake-Effect]

[derail]

Originally Posted by Spot

I am using a low-powered solar panel to keep the battery up on my sailboat.
Simple parallel installation (+ to +, - to -, no additional wires or controllers).

Us too. Our single group 24 battery can be kept up with a 16" x 16" solar panel connected via a 12v accessory jack. I just pull it out and toss it on a cockpit seat when we're away. It's so good that I have to monitor and disconnect if the battery goes above 14v.

On my boat with no alternator/generator I am probably going to skip 'big' audio and use a Bluetooth speaker tied to a tablet or phone.

We opted for a nice Sangean AM/FM stereo portable radio. It has great sound, a stereo AUX IN for personal devices, and we can move it or take it anywhere. It was eating one set of C cells a year, so now I'm mostly running from a 12v to 9v converter.

[/derail]

[Howler]

Originally Posted by Spot

Hey Howler,
I am using a low-powered solar panel to keep the battery up on my sailboat.
Simple parallel installation (+ to +, - to -, no additional wires or controllers).

I looked at the Pioneer manual for your unit. It would have taken me a couple tries to get it right.

https://catalogs.pioneer-car.eu/Manu...anual/?page=20

On my boat with no alternator/generator I am probably going to skip 'big' audio and use a Bluetooth speaker tied to a tablet or phone.

Ah, electricity and plumbing...both are glorious when working and a pain when not.

Hey Spot, I agree the Pioneer is very complicated. I picked it because it has an iPhone app that operates the device from the helm. Other brands got low ratings for that. And because the boat is in a DAB zone. Many of the other features are superfluous. I can't argue with your bluetooth speaker connected to a phone. There's even a bluetooth speaker with a built in solar charger! It's called California Rolling or something like that.

[Howler]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

I have a circuit breaker on my panel labelled bilge pump. The bilge pump is, of course, wired directly to the bank with its own fuse, so it can’t be switched off accidentally.

I use the circuit breaker as a “24/7” supply. It powers a backup bilge pump, and anything else I want on all the time: the router and wifi amplifier, the battery monitor, various alarms, and the permanent power to the stereo.

If you think of one circuit as being a “normally on”, then you can wire things appropriately.

When I leave the boat, i switch off every circuit except the 24hr one and the fridge.

Nice idea to use a spare circuit and limit it to very low draw "always-on" equipment. Thanks.

[SG]

My Sony stereo units have flash memory and doesn’t lose its settings. It must have a small onboard “clock” battery. Check with the manufacturer of the radios.

[skenn_ie]

Most of them have a power connection to maintain your programed channel allocations, then a 2nd that would usually connect to your ignition circuit. The permanent power connection will only use a few mA.

[wingssail]

The stereo breaker (for the red wire) is on the house positive bus which is connected to the house battery switch (Off-1-Both-2).

We run the yellow wire (with inline fuse) directly to that positive bus, thereby providing "always on" (mostly) for the stereo. The draw is minimal.

Even when leaving the boat we leave the house battery "On" because the bilge pump breaker also is fed from that positive bus and also needs "always on" power. (I know many boaters disagree with this but it's what we do, for reasons).

If we turn off the house battery and therefore supply no power to the positive bus we lose stereo settings. We do this so rarely, we just accept the consequences, it's rare. It's like what happens in your car if you change batteries.

This is simple and low risk and avoids adding circuitry.

[rbthorson]

Many, if not most, car stereos have a separate wire to connect to a constant 12V just for memory backup. The current draw through this connection is negligible. The main power connection to the stereo should be switched off when not in use as power consumption could be substantial.

[windekind]

Just for others Lemon California Roll Solar Power BT Waterproof Speaker
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073RGC9B8...tag=1010128-20

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by Howler

Hi Alita49DS,

Thanks for addressing my original posting in so much detail, including preference to avoid fishing wire, or rigging solar panels!

Some questions / comments to your points above:

1. There’s effectively a yellow lead for “always on”.
A. All these sets should have a standardised connector. One of the rare instances where manufacturers have go together so that one can swap in and out. Your requirement is to power that yellow memory retention lead separately from the red positive.
2. There’s a ground wire as part of the bundle of wires going through the DIN connector. I’ll have to trace it to be sure, but is it typical that boat manufacturers prewire that permanently to earth, or would the earth connection only work when the circuit breaker for the stereo is on?
A. If there was not a negative earth nothing would work. I would suspect that you can easily check that the negative is unswitched with a circuit tester through to a positive other than the one for the radio.
4. Agreed. This radio (Pioneer MVH-X580DAB) has a lot going on in so-called standby mode!
A. That is what I suspected.
5. Actually the yellow wire is part of the bundle going through the DIN connector. I assume the boat manufacturer didn’t connect it to anything at the other end. It would have to be separated from the rest in order to rig to a continuous power supply, regardless if it’s to the main battery bank or a separate power supply.
A. What they might have done is to connected the red and yellow + together. Or just left it unconnected. The standard plug has lots of leads that are not required on a boat. Such as the one for powered aerials - something that not even cars now go in for. You would have to trace the lead on your boat. Whatever you do, it is the end of that yellow lead that you need to find.
8. This is what I was initially wondering, only instead of a motorcycle battery, I was thinking of one of those 12V rechargeable li-ion battery backs ($20-35 on amazon). Apparently you can recharge them while using them to power a device. The problem, as you mention, is what what to wire to the negative terminal of an independent battery solution.
A. Looking at the wiring diagram for your set, black lead 8 is the chassis ground. However, I find the schematic from Pioneer to be very confusing. Have a look at the installation instructions for the Sony as the wiring identifications are much clearer and the purposes are actually explained. A touch screen PC will make it much easier to read the PDF.
If you look at the schematic for a USB-C plug there are four +/- pairs. All you want is one + and one - and for my part, someone else might comment, I cannot see why the - should not go to the unit chassis ground - on the standard connector. Or, probably, just to a chassis screw. I take no responsibility for that. Check it out. Micro USB would be easier as there is only one + red and - black pair and you can snip off an ignore the rest.
9. How would this solution alleviate the need to run a negative wire back? I’m not good with electricity (ask me anything you want about marine plumbing), but I do know that a DC battery circuit needs to be a closed loop.
A. See 8 above. When you use USB to charge your phone, logically your phone closes the loop.

This radio has so many settings, it takes a checklist and 10 minutes to reprogram it. For now, I leave the circuit on day to day when cruising, but when the boat’s left at the dock, I turn everything on the panel off, especially because the all the boat’s USB outlets and fans are wired to the same circuit as the stereo.
A. For my part, I do not like the sound of how your boat is wired as to protection. On my boat the Radio/entertainment is on one CB, the 12v sockets on another, the fans on yet another. Starting from a little yellow wire your skills as an electrician might come to match yours as a plumber! On which point, don't talk to me about rebuilding electric heads.

Again, thanks for all the interesting ideas!

I will try and deal with your questions seriatim. See "A" above under each of your questions. I have read the later responses. Including people reiterating about solar power which, in my view, you rightly reject.
I have also looked at the wiring diagram for your Pioneer set and compared it with that for my Sony MEXM70BT which is specifically a marine stereo. BTW, I would strongly recommend such as that. There is a substantial difference in the way that they are put together and their ability to withstand a marine environment. In my experience car sets do not last all that long. It is not that the Sony was very expensive.

[Howler]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Alita49DS! Lots of options to consider.

[Howler]

Originally Posted by SG

My Sony stereo units have flash memory and doesn’t lose its settings. It must have a small onboard “clock” battery. Check with the manufacturer of the radios.

SG, Do you happen to know the Sony model number? A unit with non-volatile memory would be a nice solution and it's easy to replace the clock battery once in a while.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

The standard plug has lots of leads that are not required on a boat. Such as the one for powered aerials - something that not even cars now go in for..

In high end car systems the powered aerial lead is used to switch on external amplifiers. It has a low power, always on when the stereo is on 12v output. I use this in my boat to switch on the amplifier for the outside speakers (with a additional switch) since I use the stereo controls for the forward and main cabin.

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

There is a substantial difference in the way that they are put together and their ability to withstand a marine environment. In my experience car sets do not last all that long. It is not that the Sony was very expensive.

The main difference is that the "marine" units will have a waterproof coating sprayed over the circuit boards on the inside and may use non-corroding metals.

That being said, they cost about twice as much as car units and we have used car units onboard Wings for about 33 years. They last about 5-10 years. I don't see the benefit of marine units since the car units last a long time anyhow. For me, the stereo is a consumable.

Our Pioneer DEHX1750 has a high power mos-FET amp and works perfectly at 4 years. It cost abut $100.

Our next one will be an Android unit. I don't much like the UI on car or marine units. It will not be a marine unit.

[a64pilot]

Marine stereos are in my opinion for boats like center consoles and other boats that mount the stereo in a location that it can get wet.
If your stereo is down below like ours is, a marine stereo isn’t required.
But then my satellite receiver, the TV, the Blue Ray player, the Dish receiver and it’s associated hard drive to record moves aren’t marine either and are all about 5 yrs old now.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Marine stereos are in my opinion for boats like center consoles and other boats that mount the stereo in a location that it can get wet.
If your stereo is down below like ours is, a marine stereo isn’t required.
But then my satellite receiver, the TV, the Blue Ray player, the Dish receiver and it’s associated hard drive to record moves aren’t marine either and are all about 5 yrs old now.

Pretty much my experience. The old Sony car stereo I tore out a while back actually had corrosion on the case from where salt water had dripped on it occasionally yet it worked fine.

I will say, the big benefit to a Marine radio is the ability to quickly switch between inside and outside speakers. Using the fader control of a typical car stereo can be a painful exercise with a lot of modern units.

As an aside, I used to rip all this kind of stuff apart once upon a time and spray the circuits and other bits with protective lacquer, but I haven't bothered doing that for years now and stuff still lasts.

[a64pilot]

That is usually called conformal coating, and is easily ordered on Amazon and or bought in an electronics supply store if any of those exist anymore.
I usually use the brush on kind myself, and conformal coating the boards is often the difference in “Marine” electronics.
Now often times there is an honest real difference in “marine” but sometimes like batteries for instance, it’s just marketing’s excuse to justify a higher price is all.