Does your radar see small fishing boats?

[wrwakefield]

I installed a B&G [Navico] 4G RADAR in 2014. It is mounted on the mizzen mast of our ketch, about 14ft above the waterline.

It still amazes me- on short range especially. I can see open slips in a harbor and small skiffs zooming around [although not on every sweep- unless I increase sweep speed.] It will also pick up float planes taking off and landing [as well as flocks of water birds doing same]; most small floats on crab and shrimp traps, as well as small, well rounded low in the water mini ice bergs.

The boat is actually not upside down [as this forum software insists on doing] in the following [poor] photo depicting 3 targets on RADAR which, if you look closely off the starboard beam, are light blue ice bergs ranging in size of a small car to a large truck; 2 of which are on the water horizon. [All clearly shown in the 2nd photo.]

If we frequented high traffic areas, I might be persuaded to upgrade to one of the newer Halo 20+ units with Doppler capability- once this one is no longer functioning or useful.

In case this is helpful.

Cheers, Bill

[deblen]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

I installed a B&G [Navico] 4G RADAR in 2014. It is mounted on the mizzen mast of our ketch, about 14ft above the waterline.

It still amazes me- on short range especially. I can see open slips in a harbor and small skiffs zooming around [although not on every sweep- unless I increase sweep speed.] It will also pick up float planes taking off and landing [as well as flocks of water birds doing same]; most small floats on crab and shrimp traps, as well as small, well rounded low in the water mini ice bergs.

The boat is actually not upside down [as this forum software insists on doing] in the following [poor] photo depicting 3 targets on RADAR which, if you look closely off the starboard beam, are light blue ice bergs about the size of a small car; 2 of which are on the water horizon.

If we frequented high traffic areas, I might be persuaded to upgrade to one of the newer Halo 20+ units with Doppler capability- once this one is no longer functioning or useful.

In case this is helpful.

Cheers, Bill

Yes Bill. Most radars are amazing-in the sea conditions that I see thru your "basement" window.
Personally,I have never found a brand that was 1/4 as impressive in 2+ ft of chop or 3-4 ft+ seas-conditions that most recreational boater don't want to be out in-but may be caught in.
If someone has a radar that doesn't perform as well as yours does,in the same conditions I see thru your window-there is something wrong & that is usually due to "inexperienced?"poor adjustment,in my experience./ Len

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by deblen

Yes Bill. Most radars are amazing-in the sea conditions that I see thru your "basement" window.
Personally,I have never found a brand that was 1/4 as impressive in 2+ ft of chop or 3-4 ft+ seas-conditions that most recreational boater don't want to be out in-but may be caught in.
If someone has a radar that doesn't perform as well as yours does,in the same conditions I see thru your window-there is something wrong & that is usually due to "inexperienced?"poor adjustment,in my experience./ Len

Yup!
I'm sure most pleasure craft radars can pick up single seagulls in such benign conditions ... throw in some chop, heavy rain, wind, waves and a 40' wooden boat target and it will show a very different picture that your "automatic" settings cannot account for.

[rdempsey]

My Furuno 1623 can see a 12' aluminum skiff at 8 miles, long before I can see it with my binoculars.
This is auto everything right out of the box on a radar mast 8' above water.

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by deblen

Yes Bill. Most radars are amazing-in the sea conditions that I see thru your "basement" window.
Personally,I have never found a brand that was 1/4 as impressive in 2+ ft of chop or 3-4 ft+ seas-conditions that most recreational boater don't want to be out in-but may be caught in.
If someone has a radar that doesn't perform as well as yours does,in the same conditions I see thru your window-there is something wrong & that is usually due to "inexperienced?"poor adjustment,in my experience./ Len

Len, after your comment I was wondering if we had wimped out for the heated helm in our basement that day, but other photos taken at the same time weren’t as good from the upper helm, so I just don’t know… It sure was calm though…

Cheers, Bill

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Yup!
I'm sure most pleasure craft radars can pick up single seagulls in such benign conditions ... throw in some chop, heavy rain, wind, waves and a 40' wooden boat target and it will show a very different picture that your "automatic" settings cannot account for.

So true BP!

It becomes most challenging for us in the short, steep chop we sometimes [inadvertently] encounter in some of our straits. I find MARPA still holds most chosen targets if I max out the sweep speed in such conditions, but once the short chop exceeds a couple of meters, we temporarily loose targets if we begin pitching too extremely…. But most targets are re-acquired quickly despite being lost by the weak MARPA capability of our system. And 3-4 meter chop means even less close range RADAR reliability [and is time to seek a new environment for us.]

Larger swell [5-10m] and contrary wind waves in open water generally present less of a challenge for our RADAR setup- when it can see over the crests anyway…

I sometimes wish Denali Rose was large enough to support an open array RADAR…

Cheers, Bill

[deblen]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

So true BP!

It becomes most challenging for us in the short, steep chop we sometimes [inadvertently] encounter in some of our straits. I find MARPA still holds most chosen targets if I max out the sweep speed in such conditions, but once the short chop exceeds a couple of meters, we temporarily loose targets if we begin pitching too extremely…. But most targets are re-acquired quickly despite being lost by the weak MARPA capability of our system. And 3-4 meter chop means even less close range RADAR reliability [and is time to seek a new environment for us.]

Larger swell [5-10m] and contrary wind waves in open water generally present less of a challenge for our RADAR setup- when it can see over the crests anyway…

I sometimes wish Denali Rose was large enough to support an open array RADAR…

Cheers, Bill

Ok you guys!!
Let me settle this "my radar can pick up ?? in flat ass conditions.
Back in the early 80s,I had a customer with a special need & wanted a radar to pick out individual herring weir stakes(poles) & 4x6" purse seine corks at night in dungeon thick Fundy fog.
I installed a Furuno 701 10kw 6ft open scanner 1.5deg beamwidth radar about 15ft above waterline. It was a cold day in Feb-well below freezing-& we didn't finish till after dark. After playing with it for an hour or so,he asked to go for a sail. Black as coal,flat glass calm. After puttering about in the harbour for awhile,& being suitably impressed,his buddy,who had come for the show,ran past us down in the fo'csle & back out aft. We weren't paying attention to him.He came back in the wheelhouse & said "There,pick that up boys". We looked at the radar & out by the stern,we could see our wake & then a small target appeared-just a faint skiff. What is that,we asked. He said"I can't believe it-that is an empty Oreo package.
Honestruth!!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by rdempsey

My Furuno 1623 can see a 12' aluminum skiff at 8 miles, long before I can see it with my binoculars.
This is auto everything right out of the box on a radar mast 8' above water.

Love to see a video of that with 3' waves on top of a 2' swell in 20knot wind spray with heavy rain.

[deblen]

I posted a sermon on BASIC radar set-up here:https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3894707


Comments welcome. / Len

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by deblen

Yes Bill. Most radars are amazing-in the sea conditions that I see thru your "basement" window.
Personally,I have never found a brand that was 1/4 as impressive in 2+ ft of chop or 3-4 ft+ seas-conditions that most recreational boater don't want to be out in-but may be caught in.
If someone has a radar that doesn't perform as well as yours does,in the same conditions I see thru your window-there is something wrong & that is usually due to "inexperienced?"poor adjustment,in my experience./ Len

I agree. Nothing remarkable about that performance, in fact I would consider it a minimum.

[Maldwin]

Originally Posted by nfbr

I have a Raymarine Quantum 2 Doppler, and it does not reliably see small fishing boats in coastal situations, regardless of tuning.

Open boats smaller than the sea state are invisible most of the time.

Wood / Glass cabin top fishing boats of about 2x sea state height will be picked up on about 30% of sweeps, but not enough to lock onto reliably.

And occasionally a wood / glass older larger fishing trawler just won't show up reliably. They of course have AIS turned off to hide their best locations at night.

Steel boats are of course well detected.

I have never seen it detect any type of fishing buoy.

You can sometimes tune to find them, but clutter becomes significant, as they appear / disappear, it's not reliable.
Mounting at first spreader in front of mast.

How does yours perform?

Is that the radome model, or open array?

[JasonS]

This thread highlights the additional importance of AIS and boats running with them on, especially in less than ideal weather/sea state conditions. Limitations to radar systems exist, but operator limitations are even greater for most small boaters out there cruising/fishing.

[nofacey]

Yea, I know it’s heresy here, but after trying to track 4 other 30+ ft sailboats into a narrowing pass with 1 freighter and 1 fast ferry coming up from behind - in the dark, with a storm squall (we were all heading for dawn landfall at the same port) using MARPA on radar, and watching everything except the freighter drop in /out - I was damn glad to also have AIS.

Using AIS, the 4 sailboats split open, the freighter went right up the middle, following the fast ferry, very little vhf comm required.

Only problem with ais is the commercial fishing boats that turn it off.

[KWF]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

This is a very important observation. I believe this is true for all models of radar. Decreasing speed, posting a lookout, and reducing radar range always seem like good safety practices when suspecting traffic or obstacles during low visibility.

Agree that reducing radar range often the key

[SaltyMetals]

It has always amazed me how people with sailing boats have their radar mounted on a fixed bracket on the mast. You lose a lot of the side vision when healed. When i changed my old Raymarine radar to the newer Raymarine Quantum doppler i had it mounted on a Scanstrut self-levelling bracket. What surprised me was the ability of the Quantum Doppler (not the Quantum 2 which came out a year too late for my upgrade) was its ability to even pick out Rowing Club (racing) boats at 2-3nm. Admittedly this was in flat water at the time.
Andrew